Veteran's Day Coming Soon!!!

[Mark H. Roe]

Nick,
I read hanks thread in the ethic post. He was unhappy that his request to have this post remove. By not having it not removed, he feels that Nachi in some way or the other is allowing this type of behavior. As a service man my self, I to take offense to James attack not only on John, but on the rest of US also. Hang in there Hank, you are a far better man than James when the roll call is called in my book.

[James H. Bushart]

I apologize to no one for my post.

As the recipient of a variety of military awards and medals myself, I read where people all over the country are pretending not only to be vets, but decorated vets as well -- and am offended. A recent presidential candidate was called to task for overstating his bravery and contributions regarding his service in Southeast Asia. Theft of valor is not new and is an abomination to all who served honorably --- regardless of their accumulation of decorations.

It's like Woodstock where, in 1969, 500,000 kids went to hear the concert and in 2007, there are over 4 million baby boomers who claim to have been there.

How many draft dodgers are returning to the USA from Canada with a box full of "medals", I wonder.

At any rate, all veterans claiming military honors are readily able to provide the documentation supporting the awards. Those of us with them know of the written citations that accompany them and the permanent record of them on our DD 214s.

I did not publicly claim that any one in particular has actually misrepresented his military decorations because I do not know this to be a fact. I only know that a particular person has, in the past, offered to provide proof of his entitlement to them when challenged...and then failed to do so. He provided controversial statements regarding his possible connection to Special Forces that, when contacted, officials presently handling the records of former members of Special Forces were unable to validate as well.

It is his right, unless asked by the FBI who investigates complaints of this nature, to refuse anyone's request for substantiation, but those of us who are proud of our medals and honors are equally as proud of the citations and proof. Especially during times like these when phony military chaplains are conducting funerals and phony U.S. Marine E-9s are making speeches at civic gatherings.

As to those who are indignant and insulted by the idea of providing evidence for entitlement to a medal or award, I find this absurd. When I was on active duty, I attended the ATC NCO Academy and as an active duty Air Force sergeant --- was required to report in full dress uniform with proper validation for every medal on my uniform. Sergeants showing up for this academy who lacked the proper validation were not allowed to wear the ribbons associated with the medals they could not validate.

Air Force personnel reporting to any major training base .... to become drill instructors and recruiters ... were also required to provide evidence of their entitlements to the medals and decorations they wore, and were required to remove from their uniforms any that they could not validate.

This also became a practice at several installations for newly assigned personnel in the early 1980s.

Actual recipients of medals and awards are not strangers to the process of providing evidence of their entitlement to them and are not offended by it, but are offended by the reason that such validation is necessary.

Again... please be clear that no apology accompanies this explanation for this or any previous post.

[William J. Decker]

Jim, once again you seem to have wone the "NACHI A** of the Year Award".

Maybe NACHI members will "validate' that for you.

[Nick Gromicko]

Ooops, sorry. I thought when I read

i will not associate with a group that insults veterans

that he was talking about NACHI. My bad. I misunderstood. So as long as it doesn't involve NACHI in any way, I really should stay out of it.

Anyway, NACHI would never insult veterans. NACHI is run more by military veterans than any other association I know of. For example: my Denver chapter is nearly all ex military including Jim Michael (the President) who had completed his 20th year by age 37. We have at least 20 other chapter heads like him run by ex military (maybe more), at least 6 war heros that I know of in NACHI, and 1 Frank Carrio. That says it all.

[Joe Farsetta]

My late father-in-law was in Patton's army in WWII. He was there when Americans re-took Paris, only to be told to back out and let French forces re-take it on film. When those forces were beaten back by a re-inforced German army, the Americans had to fight the battle a 2nd time (with heavy losses), and remain hidden behind the scenes, securing the city, so that the staged triumphant return of the French forces were recorded for prosperity.

My father-in-law saw many horrors, most of which he would never speak. He was also blown out of what was once referred to as a half-track. His unit was ahead of Patton's advancing army. He lost about half his foot, had both legs filled with shrapnel, had his ankle fused, and spent the next two years re-learning to walk.

Prior to this service ending/life altering wound, he was awarded the Bronze Star for single-handedly knocking out a German machine gun nest with a grenade, just like something you'd see in a movie. This particular feat was recorded in a book. He was awarded several other miscellaneous medals, including a Purple Heart with two clusters. My father-in-law was a good man. He was compelled to sign a paper while recovering in a hospital, guaranteening that his disability benefit would never be challenged. The problem in signing the document was that he was also barred from ever seeking a higher disability payment from the government. So much for the notion of signing under duress.

My father trained medics for the war. Though he voluntered to go, his stint was stateside in the medical profession.

My Uncle Sol was a radio operator in the Merchant Marines during WWII. He saw action, and taught me Morse Code. His nickname was "Sparks" while serving.

My Uncles John, Mickey, and Tony were ship builders in the Brooklyn Navy Yards. My Aunt Sis helped assemble torpedoes.

My Uncle Pat was an officer in the Army during the War.

My ex-Brother-in-law was a Paratrooper and was stationed in Korea. He was called back from leave, put on a plane, and was on his way to Cuba during what would become to be known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. No one really knows how close we were to going to war.

My cousin John served in the navy in Vietnam on the USS Oklahoma City.

My brother did not serve, but runs several VA medical centers in the NY metro region. He has served military folks for 35 years.

Dont talk to me about honor and valor, or this mumbo jumbo about being insulted by one ex-military person questioning the claimed service record of another.

This pissing contect started way back when one Frank Carrio was accused of lying by another NACHI member over Frank's claim at being a Green Beret during Vietnam. It turns out that Mr. Carrio was, indeed, a Green Beret. A supposed location called "Stumpneck" was the start of it all.

Henry, regardless of anything you may believe, Jim's post was in no way a slap at any current or ex-armed forces member. To the contrary, I believe Jim is pretty steamed over the entire matter.

I have no dog in this hunt one way or another. But, if one person claims something militarily that bever happened, it IS a slap in the face to every person who ever served, and to their families.

Our bretheren to the Great White North (Canada) need also honor their veterans. Together, we comprise North America, and shall remain friends and allies, I hope, for all times.

Veterans Day is my youngest son's birthday. Aside from the fact that he gets his birthday off every year, there is no parade or true recognition beyond lip service for the veterans in my town.

Everyone seems to show up by the thousands for the St. Patty's day parade though, while most veterans are thought of in passing.

It's more than a shame, IMO.

It's a f*cking disgrace.

No one respects our vets more than I do.

Remember our veterans this November 11th.

All of them.

[Mark H. Roe]

James,
As you stated it your last post, I stand corrected and I WILL stand behind you on the facts of your last post. Hank, stand strong and stand firm with Nachi.. You will find no better org any where. I my self have called out some people in my neighborhood who have claimed military duty, even wearing dress uniform to boot. James, I know you mean well with your post, but please choose you postings and words well before you post.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Jim, once again you seem to have wone the "NACHI A** of the Year Award".

Maybe NACHI members will "validate' that for you.

Well said thanks Will..........Cookie

[klott]

Talk about disrespect for veterans, that lunatic church in Kansas takes the cake by protesting at vets funerals, they are not Christians but lunatics. They are an insult to God, country and decent people everywhere. It is nothing but another one of Satan's ploys to discredit the Kingdom of God, only his followers could go so low! Rest assured they will get theirs. They better not come within arms length of me.

[dbush]

Kenneth, the only good thing that has come out of that lunatics (my apologies to lunatics everywhere) actions is the formation and growth of the patriot guards, www.patriotguard.org; an outstanding organization of which I am proud to be a member.

[James H. Bushart]

ABC News: The Blotter

FBI on the Lookout for Phony Heroes This Memorial Day Weekend

May 25, 2007 10:24 AM
Vic Walter Reports:
FBI agents and veterans will be on the lookout this Memorial Day weekend for phony military heroes, a disquieting trend that officials say has grown substantially in the years of the war with Iraq.
"I probably get three to five calls a day about someone spotted with suspicious decorations," said Doug Sterner, who passes along the tips to veterans groups and the FBI.


Sterner operates the Web site Home of Heroes, which is dedicated to honoring true military heroes.


Photos: Phony Military Heroes: Medals of Dishonor
"I'll be damned if I sit idly by while some wannabe phony wears awards that real heroes gave their lives for," Sterner said.


Among the most recent examples is Louis Lowell McGuinn of New York City.
He claimed to be a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army, often appearing at military events wearing an impressive array of decorations, including a Purple Heart, Silver Star and the Distinguished Service Cross.
But law enforcement officials say it was a ruse and that McGuinn was discharged from the Army in 1968 as a private, with none of the decorations he claimed.


Last month, FBI agents arrested McGuinn and charged him with wearing unearned medals and badges in violation of federal law. They say he posed as a highly decorated military officer in order to get a job with an underwater marine security company.


McGuinn pleaded not guilty and was released on $5,000 bail with his travel restricted. When contacted by ABC News, he declined to comment on the case.



The FBI and veterans groups say there are more and more decorated phonies turning up every day, and when they are caught, the punishment varies.


In one recent case in St. Louis, businessman Gerald Weilbacher received only two years probation and a $3,000 fine after pleading guilty to federal charges of wearing Marine Corps medals he did not earn, including the Navy Cross, the Corps' second highest medal.


The 400-pound Weilbacher never served in the Marines and was spotted at one Marine Corps veterans event as a phony because "he was too fat to be a Marine," according to one veteran.


In contrast, Michael Bramlett of Springfield, Mo., was sentenced to six months in federal prison without parole for claiming to be a Marine Captain and wearing unauthorized medals that included a Silver Star, Navy Cross and a Purple Heart for combat in Iraq.


At his sentencing on April 3, U.S. Attorney Bradley Schlozman said, "This impostor received the maximum penalty for his dishonorable conduct. Such disrespect for the brave men and women serving in our nation's forces won't be tolerated."


FBI Agent Michael Sandborn works to track down and expose phony military heroes.



"In cemeteries overseas, there are 124,913 Americans who paid for their Purple Hearts with their lives, and these impostors purchase theirs over the Internet and at surplus stores," he told ABC News.



Recent passage of the Stolen Valor Act now makes any misrepresentation of military decorations punishable by up to a year in jail.


Watchdogs like Doug Sterner think that even with the tougher law, military phonies will still be out there tarnishing the image of the true military heroes.


Sterner says, "It's so prevalent that you're never going to catch and prosecute all of them."

[James H. Bushart]

How to Spot a Phony Military Veteran

[James H. Bushart]

Phony Military Chaplain Sentenced

[rwand1]

James

Which phony uniform will you be wearing? The SS uniform or the Luftwaffe uniform, or will you settle on the Nazi arm band only? Decisions, decisions, decisions.....

[James H. Bushart]

Deleted....too tacky, even for me.

[James H. Bushart]

MSNBC.comErrors, fraud mar vets’ oral histories

References to nonexistent Medals of Honor pulled from federal Web site


By Mike Stuckey


Senior news editor


MSNBC


updated 9:08 p.m. CT, Tues., Sept. 18, 2007



A seven-year, multimillion-dollar effort by the Library of Congress to gather American veterans’ personal war stories is peppered with inaccurate information and fraudulent claims of heroism, critics say, casting doubt on its value as a historical record.


Staffers at the Veterans History Project on Tuesday were hastily removing from the project’s Web site a number of references that bestowed the nation’s highest military honor on soldiers who never won it, confirmed Matt Raymond, the library’s director of communications.


The incorrect Medal of Honor listings are just the tip of the iceberg in a collection of 50,000 oral and written histories that also includes numerous other errors regarding everything from lesser medals to rank attained and whether or not the soldier was ever a prisoner of war, according to outside experts on the database.


“You can’t tell what’s historical fact and what’s not,” said Mary Schantag of POW Network, a Skidmore, Mo.-based group that tracks information on U.S. prisoners of war and exposes fraudulent POW claims. “It’s a terrible tragedy. They’ve spent millions of dollars trying to record these stories, and they have no way of knowing which ones are true or not.”


Tuesday’s scrubbing of the Web site came as the result of a story by John Hoellwarth published online in the Marine Corps Times. Using information provided by Medal of Honor expert Doug Sterner, Hoellwarth’s story named 24 men who were listed on the Veterans History Project Web site as Medal of Honor recipients but who did not receive the award.


Permanently established by Congress in 1863, the Medal of Honor is given only for the highest acts of valor in combat by members of the U.S. armed services. For all the millions of soldiers, sailors and fliers who have fought under the American flag in the past 144 years, the medal has been awarded to just 3,463. There are only 109 living recipients of the medal. Just two have been awarded during the Iraq war, both posthumously to men who sacrificed their lives to save their fellow soldiers.


Hoellwarth, who has outed numerous phony military heroes over the past two years, starting with a fake two-star general in Louisiana, was stunned by Sterner’s data. “This Library of Congress stuff, I’ve never seen anything like it. That's incredible,” said Hoellwarth, who served with the Marines during the invasion of Iraq.


The library’s Raymond told msnbc.com that “as soon as this issue was brought to our attention, the staff immediately began to do some additional verification measures.” Raymond called the erroneous Medal of Honor listings “largely the result of innocent mistakes,” such as transcription errors or faulty recollections.


Sterner and Schantag were not buying that. First, Sterner pointed out, the Veterans History Project only contained histories of 49 purported Medal of Honor recipients, meaning just shy of half were incorrect. In addition, they said, their review showed at least 32 participants in the project were wrongly credited with Distinguished Service Crosses out of 100 such listings, and 14 out of 150 entries improperly claimed the Navy Cross. And of 144 participants who said they were Vietnam-era POWs, at least 45 were not, they said.


“Clerical errors to this extent are unsatisfactory,” Sterner said. “While everyone may make a mistake now and then, when 50 percent of the individuals listed by the Library of Congress as Medal of Honor recipients are not, that is gross negligence if the fault is even partially due to data entry errors.”


Inflated résumés and outright lies


Sterner, himself a decorated Vietnam vet, and Schantag, whose husband was wounded while serving as a Marine in Vietnam, said they believe what they’ve uncovered on the Library of Congress Web site is part of a virtual epidemic of former service members inflating their war records and lying about their honors.


“Over the last 10 years, I’ve had to deal with hundreds of these people on a regular basis,” said Sterner, a Denver community college professor who runs a Web site devoted to honoring genuine recipients of the Medal of Honor. “I try not to get too involved in these things because my real deal is to tell the story of the real heroes, but when the fakers come up, they have to be dealt with.”


Sterner recently helped expose the fraudulent Vietnam service resume of a Massachusetts Indian tribe leader, Glenn Marshall, and pushed for passage of last year’s Stolen Valor Act, which now makes it a federal crime to claim military honors that one did not receive.


Raymond said that although the Veterans History Project has a staff of 25 and an annual budget of $2.5 million, veterans’ recollections are gathered entirely by unpaid volunteers. Project director Bob Patrick told the Marine Times that information about medals is not checked before it is published, although some attempts to verify Medal of Honor claims have been made “in the past,” the last some 18 months ago.


But Raymond said serious checking “would be impossible” anyway. “There are 50,000 oral histories that are involved in the Veterans History Project, it’s got a very small staff and it gets at the philosophical underpinning of what an oral history project is. … It’s not intended to be a historical record. They are personal, firsthand accounts.”


Sterner said it would be easy to check Medal of Honor claims since the list of all recipients is widely published on the Internet. And Schantag said that the names of the 691 American servicemen known to have been held as POWs by North Vietnam and to have returned alive to the United States also can be easily found.


They agreed that other commonly fraudulent military claims, such as whether or not soldiers served in special forces, what medals and ranks they attained, and what battles they fought in, can only be verified by obtaining official service records. As a start, they argue for the creation of a national database to compile and list the awards.

An additional safeguard


And Schantag said that the Library of Congress could easily require participants in the Veterans History Project to fill out paperwork authorizing release of their entire service records in the event that questions are raised about their accounts.


While they applaud the intent behind the Veterans History Project and the vast majority of its content, they also point to suspicious accounts of heroics on the Library of Congress Web site and elsewhere that sound like scenes from a “Rambo” movie, medal collections that don’t jibe with campaign ribbons, and other possibly fraudulent material.


Hoellwarth said military fakery seems to occur in cycles and can often spark big news stories on the local level. He has been surprised at the lack of response so far to his story on the Veterans History Project. “I thought it was gong to go nuclear. I get up this morning, nothing.”


Schantag was happy to see the story and whatever attention results from it because “these phonies are changing history and somebody’s got to stand up and say this is wrong. … The more you meet the real heroes, the more you meet the young men coming home from Iraq missing limbs, and then you see these stories and then you hear these claims, you get madder and madder.”


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