Where are we headed?

[jmichalski]

Originally Posted by wdecker

If you listen to any news shows, or most Democratic politician, you will notice that during discussions of the illegal immigrant issue, they hardly ever use the illegal adjetive. This is done on purpose, to attempt to change the issue. In fact, many on the left believe that the use of the worek 'illegal' is, in itself, 'racist'. This is clear.

As to these people coming in and working and doing work that no one else would do, I disagree. Someone else would do the work, just not at the very low wages that illegals are paid.

What is needed:

1) Enforce border control.
2) Enforce laws already on the books that would prohibit hiring illegals.
3) Deny free medical care, schooling, etc to non-documented immigants.

No new laws are needed, only enforcment of those already on the books.

I find it very interesting that when I do draw inspections, whenever I start taling pictures, almost all of the hispanic people at the site run to get out of the picture.

I find this very interesting.

Will -

I think you misinterpret the intentions of those who do not like to use the word "illegal" in reference to all immigrants. I think there are many who are not trying to change the issue.

Like it or not, it is a racially charged issue. Let's face it, no one is talking about checking the documented status of white guys on the streets, although they could be illegal Austrailian immigrants.

Speaking only for myself, it comes down to people applying these laws disproportionately to people of color (i.e. Latino/Hispanics, etc). I don't think that most white folks here in suburbia will be asked for proof of citizenship at the local hospital when they are taken into the ER. I am not at all sure the same will be able to be said regarding provision of servce to the significant Mexican population we have here, most of whom are here legally.

I think the xenophobia is a bit overdone, but I am willing to enforce rules as long as they are enforced equally, and to all borders and ports, not just those that border countries that predominently don't look like us.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Troy,

I agree with you 100% and with your previous post about your need to go to the Million Dollar market segment. I've seen so many here go out of business because they can not compete with the cheap labor tactics you have described.

As for the lawyer analogy it is very valid. However, they don't need to bring the lawyers into the country to have the same affect. Here is another article from that same Sunday's Business section. It contains not only the tech side but the first paragraph under the heading "Close contact, far away" does mention the plight lawyers could be facing.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...t.25b7c21.html

Originally Posted by tdutt

Emmanuel,

Agreed.
But while people of influence continue to use the services provided by illegals to work on their homes, maintain their yards and pools, clean their houses, I don't see anything changing. If they could only see the effect it's having on the lower income earners who are legal (whatever their ethnicity) maybe their conscience would bother them enough to change their lifestyles or expectations of what they should pay for those services and who should be doing them.
I heard a young lawyer on TV saying, "Well, these people need jobs too."
I wanted to write her and ask her how she'd like it if 1 million lawyers entered the country illegally and started digging into her work. Would she appreciate it if the fees she was charging fell from $250 per hour to $80 and her number of clients dropped dramatically because there were so many out of work lawyers that just needed a job too! I don't think so. She doesn't feel the pinch and so it doens't bother her. In fact, I'm sure that not only her nice condo, but also her vacation house at both the beach and the mountains were steeply discounted due to illegals labor, as well as all the money she saves on maintaining and cleaning these places, so there is no incentive for her to change her mind.
But if we were to have 1 million lawyers from around the world enter our country illegally and cut the prices that our attorney's charge in half, not to mention the number of their clients, I know that they wouldn't tolerate any of this nonsense of how extreme or DRACONIAN it would be to deport them all and set up a legal means for guest workers. They'd use legal means to get them out as fast as possible.
And you could count on the fact that our attorneys would see to it that laws were passed so that anyone who used the services of illegal lawyers would face steep, DRACONIAN penalties for doing so.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jmichalski

...I think the xenophobia is a bit overdone, but I am willing to enforce rules as long as they are enforced equally, and to all borders and ports, not just those that border countries that predominently don't look like us.

This is not a race issue. I don't care if someone is pink but please come here and work and enjoy freedom by leagal means. It's really that simple.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Originally Posted by mlarson

This is not a race issue. I don't care if someone is pink but please come here and work and enjoy freedom by leagal means. It's really that simple.

I agree 100% but it is unfortunate that those with notoriety are trying to create a racist slant to it in an effort to win amnesty for illegal immigrants. I'm 100% Pro for legal immigration and feel that those trying to come here legally are some of the ones suffering the most from the problems of illegal immigration. Everyone suffers from it, but by by virtue of their ethnicity they will be unfairly treated by the general public as a result.

[jmichalski]

Listen a little more closely. No one (OK "few" - there are always fringe lunatics) is trying to say that efforts to curb illegal immigration are inherently racist.

The arguement (and it is legitimate) is that this will not be applied evenly and without regard to race.

The hospital example I gave is a classic case where many fear a person of color will have to prove citizenship while bleeding in an ER, by virtue of their color, while white ER patients will not be asked for the same documentation.

Yes, it is an extreme example, but it underscores the point. I am pretty sure no one is going to ask me to prove if I am a citizen when I get rushed to the ER - my neighbor Luis (legal Mexican immigrant) might not be so sure.

Borders with Canada lack security at many points. No one was clamoring for an 800 mile wall there.

It is the unequal application where minorities are concerned that draws fire as possibly racist.

Apply funds, patrols, laws, documentation requirements, etc equally everywhere, and there ceases to be an arguement that can be based on race.

[tdutt]

Originally Posted by jmichalski

Borders with Canada lack security at many points. No one was clamoring for an 800 mile wall there.

It is the unequal application where minorities are concerned that draws fire as possibly racist.

Apply funds, patrols, laws, documentation requirements, etc equally everywhere, and there ceases to be an arguement that can be based on race.

Joesph,

If 11 million + Canadians were coming into the states and disrupting the ecomony, health care and education system, law enforcement, etc. I would be just as opposed to their illegal status and expect my government to remove them and send them back to Canada as I do those that are from other countries. As others have said, this is not a race issue. Ditto for those from Australia. All illegal immigrants need to return to their country of origin, no matter their ethnicity. I will happily welcome all those of every ethnicity (except for Islamic terrorists) who come here legally.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jmichalski

The hospital example I gave is a classic case where many fear a person of color will have to prove citizenship while bleeding in an ER, by virtue of their color, while white ER patients will not be asked for the same documentation.

I submit you little about emergency room care. You have expressed out and out bunk. I've worked in ER, it's a first come first serve basis. Unfortunately the place is often clogged by those with no insurance who are there for their headache. Patients wait in the lobby while the indigent, illegal, and unisured are occupying precious bed space in the most expensive territory in the hospital. You don't have to believe me. Call one and ask.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jmichalski

Apply funds, patrols, laws, documentation requirements, etc equally everywhere, and there ceases to be an arguement that can be based on race.

Let's start where the largest problem is first. We can get the rest later.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by tdutt

Joesph,

If 11 million + Canadians were coming into the states and disrupting the ecomony, health care and education system, law enforcement, etc. I would be just as opposed to their illegal status and expect my government to remove them and send them back to Canada as I do those that are from other countries. As others have said, this is not a race issue. Ditto for those from Australia. All illegal immigrants need to return to their country of origin, no matter their ethnicity. I will happily welcome all those of every ethnicity (except for Islamic terrorists) who come here legally.

We both know this is not a concern but some in your government want to also put a fence all the way across between our two countries 2,000+ miles.
This is fine the cost will be hard on the US taxpayer but the big concern is we have about 1,000 miles of water that separates out two countries .
Can you even imagine how they can ever hope to maintain that .
In Just the Niagara River alone less then 1/2 mile wide you can have up to 2,000 or more boats from both sides fishing in the river .
Most who fish there a lot buy licenses for both NY and Ontario to remove being in trouble for fishing over the line that is not even straight

Roy Cooke
.