This website continues to handle more and more traffic every day.

[Nick Gromicko]

http://www.nachi.org/traffic-2009.htm

[Nick Gromicko]

... and pushes more and more of that traffic to member's websites every day: http://www.nachi.org/inspection-leads.htm

[Billy Boerner]

Nick let's raise those numbers even higher. Let's take another look at our entrance requirements. We need to seperate actual certified home inspectors from those who just joined. Applying full certification immediately after one signs up and passes a online test is not doing our org justice in the credibility department. Lots of traffic out and about on how easy it is to get fully certified with NACHI.

[Nick Gromicko]

Click here: http://exams.nachi.org/oe/stats.php It takes a minute to calculate and open.

Anyway, what pass rate would you like to see in our entrance exam?

I realize that diploma mill ASHI has almost no requirements and almost no traffic. And I realize that InterNACHI has a many requirements and tremendous traffic. So the data supports your thinking. But I suspect your "correlation between requirements and traffic" theory might be just freak coincidence.

Now just because you personally are not in a licensed state, don't make the mistake of forgetting that most of your fellow members are in licensed states and that InterNACHI's membership requirements are above and beyond what they have to do for their state, which often includes a classroom course, state exam, background check, continuing education, insurance, etc. Throw www.nachi.org/rigorous2006.htm on top of that and I'm not sure what else we could add. What more requirements did you have in mind? A required equipment list?

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Click here: http://exams.nachi.org/oe/stats.php It takes a minute to calculate and open.

Anyway, what pass rate would you like to see in our entrance exam?

We need to reverse the month one, month 2, and month 3 requirements after you join to before you join and someone needs to be available to verify that those requirements have been met. Once the test is passed, the online requirements have been met and verified, and a few of Ben's how to do a home inspection and other videos have been viewed, and atleast 5 out of the 100 reports have been verfied as meeting the NACHI standards only then will one get a training not associate logo. Once a member has been a member for atleast 1 year and NACHI has verified so many paid reports then they can get a fully certified NACHI logo. Trust me we have a bad rep much like ASHI does and in my opinion it's one the biggest concerns about any association. Respect will follow with this organization and set us apart from ASHI requirements if we set something firm inplace and in my opinion more people will join knowing that the NACHI certification logo actually means something. I even had to defend our CMI logo however that was corrected and they understand now but regardless not much sets us apart from ASHI when "Initial Sign Up" takes place. We are getting laughed at due to the fact we certifiy "FULLY" due to the fact one only has to pass a online exam which is not proctored. The main fight about the test is someone can simply look up the answers while taking the test even a timed test. Even with you stats Nick one should not be fully certified like the rest of the guys who's done some online training, watched videos and whatever else right off the bat and be made to look like your vetern NACHI inspectors.

Another thing...

There are many seasoned vets here that would be more than happy to verify or review reports. Credibility in this business is everything. The logo demonstrates our credibility and with these new requirements or something close to them your credibility will shoot straight through the roof IMO and membership will eventually raise as word is passed around.

[James A. Levy]

Originally Posted by bboerner

We need to reverse the month one, month 2, and month 3 requirements after you join to before you join and someone needs to be available to verify that those requirements have been met. Once the test is passed, the online requirements have been met and verified, and a few of Ben's how to do a home inspection and other videos have been viewed, and atleast 5 out of the 100 reports have been verfied as meeting the NACHI standards only then will one get a training not associate logo. Once a member has been a member for atleast 1 year and NACHI has verified so many paid reports then they can get a fully certified NACHI logo. Trust me we have a bad rep much like ASHI does and in my opinion it's one the biggest concerns about any association. Respect will follow with this organization and set us apart from ASHI requirements if we set something firm inplace and in my opinion more people will join knowing that the NACHI certification logo actually means something. I even had to defend our CMI logo however that was corrected and they understand now but regardless not much sets us apart from ASHI when "Initial Sign Up" takes place. We are getting laughed at due to the fact we certifiy "FULLY" due to the fact one only has to pass a online exam which is not proctored. The main fight about the test is someone can simply look up the answers while taking the test even a timed test. Even with you stats Nick one should not be fully certified like the rest of the guys who's done some online training, watched videos and whatever else right off the bat and be made to look like your vetern NACHI inspectors.

Another thing...

There are many seasoned vets here that would be more than happy to verify or review reports. Credibility in this business is everything. The logo demonstrates our credibility and with these new requirements or something close to them your credibility will shoot straight through the roof IMO and membership will eventually raise as word is passed around.

Billy, I have a slightly different take on the issue. I do not feel that Nachi has a bad reputation outside of the ASHI circle. Hardcore ASHI guys won't even acknowledge that InterNachi exists.
I live in one of those licensed states that has a rigorous required live classroom program. We in NJ are a hardcore ASHI state. The NJ Home Inspectors Advisory Committee is made up of these ASHI die hards. I feel that there is not enough Nachi presence here in NJ. I do not feel that there are enough chapters recruiting inspectors for membership. I don't think many inspectors realize what Nachi has to offer, and if left to their ASHI leadership they will never know.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that we don't have a bad rep., around here we have no reputation. We have one InterNachi chapter covering the whole state which can be divided five or six different ways. The chapter does a good job, but if divided, the message might get out better. I plan on talking to Nick in January about starting a south jersey chapter because I know of two schools that will have students finishing at that time.
I think our entrance requirements are fine. If the organization were to come up with some level of recognition between new member and CMI, that would be a great idea.
This is a real good and important topic to kick around.

Drew

[Nick Gromicko]

Billy,

Some of your points sound good on the surface, but they've been talked out and soundly rejected here before.

This past year in this slow economy where marketing and approved CE (two of InterNACHI's strengths) became so important to existing inspectors, InterNACHI picked up a lot of veteran inspectors, many of whom were long-time members of other associations. We can't really expect a 10 year veteran inspector who wants to join InterNACHI tomorrow to wait a full year with your "training logo" idea.

Furthermore, that would set up a tiered membership level which InterNACHI members have consistently rejected in the past.

As for requiring watching Ben's videos, I'm sure he would be quite honored to hear your suggestion, but watching a video is not the same taking our approved, accredited online education www.nachi.org/education.htm

As for your stance about online education and testing, I'm afraid you are living a bit in the past. The U.S. Department of Education (which I believe is involved with a few classrooms ) did a 12 year study. Their 93 page report concluded that online education is better than classrooms. Read: http://www.nachi.org/online-beats-classroom.htm Nearly every home inspector licensing board and government agency that regulates home inspectors has approved online education and testing. Harvard and Yale use online education and testing.

As for veterans reviewing newbies reports to see if they comply with SOP, that is totally asss backwards. Most newer inspectors write reports that nail the SOP dead on. It is the veterans who mostly write reports that veer from SOP. Also, newer inspectors do much better on our SOP courses and tests than veterans. So we'd have to do just the reverse of your suggestion to cause any meaningful improvement.

As for CMI, that organization is separate from InterNACHI and their requirements are much different. www.certifiedmasterinspector.org

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Click here: http://exams.nachi.org/oe/stats.php It takes a minute to calculate and open.

Anyway, what pass rate would you like to see in our entrance exam?

I realize that diploma mill ASHI has almost no requirements and almost no traffic. And I realize that InterNACHI has a many requirements and tremendous traffic. So the data supports your thinking. But I suspect your "correlation between requirements and traffic" theory might be just freak coincidence.

Now just because you personally are not in a licensed state, don't make the mistake of forgetting that most of your fellow members are in licensed states and that InterNACHI's membership requirements are above and beyond what they have to do for their state, which often includes a classroom course, state exam, background check, continuing education, insurance, etc. Throw www.nachi.org/rigorous2006.htm on top of that and I'm not sure what else we could add. What more requirements did you have in mind? A required equipment list?

Bill lives in a licensed state....but does not have a state license. He chooses to work in an unlicensed state, and feels the need for some "credential" that he wants his membership in NACHI to provide.

What Bill does not understand that, in St. Louis, he will not find acceptance among the realtor market he covets without an ASHI membership. It has nothing to do with the quality of the inspector, but the fact that ASHI and the St Louis Assoc of Realtors share the same political agendas and have a history of supporting each other in them.

[Nick Gromicko]

I don't know Jim. That might have been true up until about the end of 2008. I have so many brokers complaining about ASHI in St. Louis that I can't even count them. I reinforce their thinking by pointing them to ASHI's 28 second, online application process that requires nothing to join. Believe me, they never use ASHI again... and really can't, now that they know.

Furthermore, the Cohen attorneys offer free help with me as an expert witness to any ASHI inspector's client in the U.S. who sues their agent for negligent referral. Any agent that refers a member of a known diploma mill (ASHI inspector) should be willing to pay for all repairs not uncovered. That is my position statement that I tell potential plaintiff's that I'm willing to testify to in court. InterNACHI is always contacted when any consumer has any complaint about any inspector and the first question I ask is "Did your agent steer you toward a diploma mill member?"

St. Louis may have been one of those last hold-outs for ASHI, but I don't think they are doin' too well hangin' on this past year. Word's out: ASHI is a diploma mill and any agent caught referring a diploma mill inspector deserves to pay.

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Billy,

Some of your points sound good on the surface, but they've been talked out and soundly rejected here before.

-- I've been here for how long now and I don't ever remember getting to vote on anything just to be honest with you.

This past year in this slow economy where marketing and approved CE (two of InterNACHI's strengths) became so important to existing inspectors, InterNACHI picked up a lot of veteran inspectors, many of whom were long-time members of other associations. We can't really expect a 10 year veteran inspector who wants to join InterNACHI tomorrow to wait a full year with your "training logo" idea.

-- Good point. The least we can do is turn the intial requirments around. Right now they are backwards. Have someone complete the online requirements month 1,2,3 and pass the test before they join. Even without the waiting a year idea that would still set you apart.

Furthermore, that would set up a tiered membership level which InterNACHI members have consistently rejected in the past.

-- Again when did this vote take place? That's something I have never seen here. However if rejected fine.

As for requiring watching Ben's videos, I'm sure he would be quite honored to hear your suggestion, but watching a video is not the same taking our approved, accredited online education www.nachi.org/education.htm

-- Agree. I didn't say replace online training I stated to require that some videos be viewed along with the online training.

As for your stance about online education and testing, I'm afraid you are living a bit in the past. The U.S. Department of Education (which I believe is involved with a few classrooms ) did a 12 year study. Their 93 page report concluded that online education is better than classrooms. Read: http://www.nachi.org/online-beats-classroom.htm Nearly every home inspector licensing board and government agency that regulates home inspectors has approved online education and testing. Harvard and Yale use online education and testing.

-- Online training is good not denying that.

As for veterans reviewing newbies reports to see if they comply with SOP, that is totally asss backwards. Most newer inspectors write reports that nail the SOP dead on. It is the veterans who mostly write reports that veer from SOP. Also, newer inspectors do much better on our SOP courses and tests than veterans. So we'd have to do just the reverse of your suggestion to cause any meaningful improvement.

-- Good point.

As for CMI, that organization is separate from InterNACHI and their requirements are much different. www.certifiedmasterinspector.org

-- People was confused that one can simply replace the 1000 paid inspection requirment with CE's only. The way I understand you need 1000 or 500 plus CE's equal to 1000 inspections.

Q: What about the claim that one can simply take the online test pay your bill and become fully certified? I've heard mulitiple people state nothing after this was ever verified. How does this claim set us apart from ASHI?

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Bill lives in a licensed state....but does not have a state license. He chooses to work in an unlicensed state, and feels the need for some "credential" that he wants his membership in NACHI to provide.

What Bill does not understand that, in St. Louis, he will not find acceptance among the realtor market he covets without an ASHI membership. It has nothing to do with the quality of the inspector, but the fact that ASHI and the St Louis Assoc of Realtors share the same political agendas and have a history of supporting each other in them.

Bill lives in MO now. Bill also understands completely how ASHI dominates this area in the realtor arena. That was very apparent at my first trade show.

[Nick Gromicko]

The 61% of people who can't even pass our Entrance exam http://exams.nachi.org/oe/stats.php (let alone even begin to fulfill the ongoing membership requirements) is what sets us apart. Those "can't get past step one ers" go over to ASHI where there are no requirements to keep them out. That is why ASHI is a diploma mill.

The requirements also separate everyone from the get-go, and sends the cream to InterNACHI. It's all about constant improvement of bloodline. It's not so much that ASHI attracts all the dummies... they simply have no other choice, they can't get in anywhere else.

[Billy Boerner]

Nick you must pass a national exam just like yours to get certification with ASHI. Your assertions are well attended I'm sure and I respect this organization however I'm not understanding where you getting that ASHI has no requirements. They do.

You can join the organization and get access with no test I agree however you can't place a associate nor a full member logo on any type of advertisment without passing a home inspector test. What's the difference?

[cjustason]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Nick let's raise those numbers even higher. Let's take another look at our entrance requirements. We need to seperate actual certified home inspectors from those who just joined. Applying full certification immediately after one signs up and passes a online test is not doing our org justice in the credibility department. Lots of traffic out and about on how easy it is to get fully certified with NACHI.

Is that not how you got started here? Why would you want to do that? If a person is following the present guidlines there shouldn't be any problems. Or, if someone is jumping with both feet without properly preparing then aren't they setting themselves up to fail?

[Billy Boerner]

The problem is there is no difference between a inspector with years of HI experience and those that simply decided to leave the local post office study for a national exam, pass it and become nationally certified just like the guy with years of experience over night. Once you pass the test, sign the affidavid, and pay your money your considered a national certified home inspector no different than anyone else. You don't see a problem with this picture? Anyone can study to pass the National Exam or Nicks. The online training we are required to do after you join should be required before you join at a minimum.