Why the CMI Designation Will Fail

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

[quote=jbushart][quote=fcarrio]FOR THE RECORD:
I consider Jim Bushart to be a good, honest, and decent man. I am proud to call him a friend. As with all friendships on any given day sometimes you agree and sometimes you will disagree. If there is a difference of opinion here, I would like to say that it is voiced with all due respect and without malice or anger.

Frank,
For the purpose of this discussion, please define what you are referring to as "what the market will bear" in this context: The lowballer, the guy in the middle, and the guy on the high end each feel they are getting as much as they can.
Please correct me if I am wrong but ….. IMO, "What the market will bear" is the "average price" for a general area. This price is derived at after the local inspectors market themselves according to their ability and see that their "higher price" is continuously turned down while their “next incrementally lower price" is continuously accepted.
Some people lower their prices by $5.00 to $10.00 per hundred. Others raise or lower their prices in increments of $25-$50 so on, and so forth. So I cannot say what "increment" is used in your area.

No one books an inspection, intentionally, for less than they feel they can demand.
Agreed! However some "really good technical inspectors" do not have the personal skills and or the marketing skills that are required to make them successful businesspeople. As such, each time they lose an inspection they lose a small amount of confidence in their ability as a human being.
This reflects in their lower prices.
There is a local inspection company that employs approximately 58 inspectors. All of the inspectors that I met were either average or above average. Every inspector told me the same story. And that is that they tried "on their own" for anywhere from one to five years and found it impossible to pay their bills. When speaking to these people I found that each and every one of them had lowered their price to ridiculous levels in order to survive. The more they lowered their price the more they weakened their financial position and eventually they put themselves out of business.

So now, they live in the same house, they work/inspect in the same area, but they are doing it for someone else at a "66% less" than when they were working for themselves!

Example: Today, at a discounted rate of $299 I did a 1500 ft, 2 bedroom. If I worked through a real estate salesman, I would not have gotten the referral if I was higher than $225. Our ASHI lowballer does all homes for $145.
Jim,
If working through a real estate salesman is going to hinder and or harm your business then I say stay away from them. Personally I get a lot of referrals from real estate "sales people". At least five different agents tell their clients that I am the most expensive in the area and that they feel that I am worth every penny that I charge.
{THREAD DRIFT:
For what it is worth:
These agents are concerned that they might be named in a "joint lawsuit" for something that an inspector has missed during his inspection. Everyone without exception has told me a "horror story" of someone in their office who has been named in a joint lawsuit over an expensive item that had to be repaired and or replaced because an inspector "missed it” during his inspection.}

They all tell me that my meticulous attention to detail is the reason that they recommend me.
And no, I do not pay for any "referrals" nor do I give gifts, coupons, or any other enticements.

• I just do my job to the best of my ability and I leave it at that.

Next month, when my discount is over, I will do the same size house for $350.

What will "the market" bear?
If you "ordinarily" charge $350.00 and you get referrals/business at that price then IMHO, right now today "your market will bear" $350.00

[James H. Bushart]

Frank - If I understand you, then, you are using "what the market will bear" as the high end of what is presently being charged. Thanks. I wanted to clarify that to be sure we are on the same page.

Now, let me ask you this....

Who should be found at the "high end" of what is presently being charged? A newby, an average inspector, a "master" of his profession....?

[Joe Farsetta]

Mario,

Go f yourself.

Just because you dont like something, doesnt make it non-factual. Creep.

[Joe Farsetta]

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, it's time to delve into the REAL problem with our profession. It is one that most do not want to come to grips with.

That is, the real reason that our prices remain low, and that we put up with all sorts of crap within our industry has NOTHING to do with any of this. Not associations. Not designations. Not litigation. None of it.

The REAL problem is that our role inthe RE transaction is not PERCEIVED to be that important. If the client PERCEIVED our role to be more important than that of the Realtor, we would be offered more money, instead of bargained with.

The case in point is the 5% commission the listing RE broker collects and divies up after closing. Figure it out on a $500,000 purchase. $25,000 split 4 ways. For what?

Take the lowly inspector. We come in, and are expected to find anything and everything right and wrong with the dwelling in around 3 hours or less. We are barred from performing any invasive inspections. We are blamed for everything, and no one defends us. Then, we are pressured into producing a report in 5 minutes. After all, time is of the essence.

We are the SOLE party to the transaction that has no vested interest in whether the home sells or not. We are the SOLE advocate for our client.

Yet, the first thing we are asked by the client is "how much do you charge?" Many will go to the next inspector for $25

Unless and until we, as industry professionals, change how we are perceived, we will cntinue to squabble about low-ballers.

Even though the Realtor may say "always hire a home inspector", they are often the first to ask about the fee. If they think you charge too much, ask them to take a lower commission, and kick in the difference.

Talk is cheap, especially when it comes from a home inspector. That's the perception, and therein lies the problem.

Do I have an answer? Nope.

We need to acknowledge the problem, and go about fixing our industry.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Mario,

Go f yourself.

Just because you dont like something, doesnt make it non-factual. Creep.

Wow!!!

Is that all you can come up with? You are now on my ignore list *****hole.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

We need to acknowledge the problem, and go about fixing our industry.

Where do we start? Ideally, it would be at the inspector level...but who coordinates this effort...and how?

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, it's time to delve into the REAL problem with our profession. It is one that most do not want to come to grips with.

That is, the real reason that our prices remain low, and that we put up with all sorts of crap within our industry has NOTHING to do with any of this. Not associations. Not designations. Not litigation. None of it.

The REAL problem is that our role inthe RE transaction is not PERCEIVED to be that important. If the client PERCEIVED our role to be more important than that of the Realtor, we would be offered more money, instead of bargained with.

The case in point is the 5% commission the listing RE broker collects and divies up after closing. Figure it out on a $500,000 purchase. $25,000 split 4 ways. For what?

Take the lowly inspector. We come in, and are expected to find anything and everything right and wrong with the dwelling in around 3 hours or less. We are barred from performing any invasive inspections. We are blamed for everything, and no one defends us. Then, we are pressured into producing a report in 5 minutes. After all, time is of the essence.

We are the SOLE party to the transaction that has no vested interest in whether the home sells or not. We are the SOLE advocate for our client.

Yet, the first thing we are asked by the client is "how much do you charge?" Many will go to the next inspector for $25

Unless and until we, as industry professionals, change how we are perceived, we will cntinue to squabble about low-ballers.

Even though the Realtor may say "always hire a home inspector", they are often the first to ask about the fee. If they think you charge too much, ask them to take a lower commission, and kick in the difference.

Talk is cheap, especially when it comes from a home inspector. That's the perception, and therein lies the problem.

Do I have an answer? Nope.

We need to acknowledge the problem, and go about fixing our industry.

You forgot to mention one thing, something about what the market will bear!!
You are a joke.
You are on the fence on this issue and I have a feeling that you are one of the lowballers.

I'm done here.
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[Joe Farsetta]

Mario,

Your ignorance astounds me. I do not sit on the fence, nor am I a lowballer. But then again, you speak from ignorance. The fact that you cannot perceive the realities of marketing, and the differences between strategies from market to market, leads me to believe that you are clueless. And that is sad.

Instead of spewing more BS, genius, why not really read some of the posts. They are meaningful and warrant discussion, even if from the other side of the argument. If you cant add anythng of value to the mix, try removing your head from your *****.

Sometimes, you are just a dick. This is one of those times, J.O.

[Joe Farsetta]

Jim,

I have no answer. The effort needs to start at an industry level. With all the in-fighting between associations, and the power that NAR has, I wouldnt know where to begin.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

[quote=jbushart]
Frank - If I understand you, then, you are using "what the market will bear" as the high end of what is presently being charged. Thanks. I wanted to clarify that to be sure we are on the same page.
Yes it appears that we are in agreement that "what the market will bear" signifies the "high end" of the inspection fees charged in a specific area.

Now, let me ask you this....

Who should be found at the "high end" of what is presently being charged? A newby, an average inspector, a "master" of his profession....?
IMHO this answer is self explanatory.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

[quote=jfarsetta]
That is, the real reason that our prices remain low, and that we put up with all sorts of crap within our industry has NOTHING to do with any of this. Not associations. Not designations. Not litigation. None of it.

The REAL problem is that our role in the RE transaction is not PERCEIVED to be that important. If the client PERCEIVED our role to be more important than that of the Realtor, we would be offered more money, instead of bargained with.
The only problem with dealing with "the client" is that we see them only during the inspection and if we are lucky many years later when they buy another home. However, we all know that is not the norm. That leaves the real estate agent as the person that we will continue to see on more than one occasion.
I've found that in dealing with real estate agents if you treat them as "people" and not as an adversary than they will reciprocate in kind. 99% of the time the buyers and sellers real estate agents leave with a smile on their face and with my business card in their hand. I do receive a lot of "repeat business" from both the buyers and sellers real estate agents.

The case in point is the 5% commission the listing RE broker collects and divies up after closing. Figure it out on a $500,000 purchase. $25,000 split 4 ways. For what?
Supposedly for their "hard work and expertise". Yesterday I saw an agent buy a brand-new stove for a first-time buyer who was complaining that the "stove top" had been scoured and "white marks" were on the black stove top. She actually bought them a brand-new stove so that the deal would go through!
On another inspection I also saw the same agent hand a client a check for $500.00 because the buyer was complaining about some small nit picking item that was going to take $400-$500 to replace. So like home inspectors, you have some real estate agents who go the extra mile to satisfy the customer.
These are the people that I like to conduct inspections for.

Take the lowly inspector. We come in, and are expected to find anything and everything right and wrong with the dwelling in around 3 hours or less. We are barred from performing any invasive inspections. We are blamed for everything, and no one defends us. Then, we are pressured into producing a report in 5 minutes. After all, time is of the essence.
This statement is so true. That is why I like to deal with ethical people who have a sense of right and wrong. Their moral values will not let them participate in a "slam, bam, thank you ma'am” type of inspection.
When their clients call me to book an inspection they are already "prepped” for a three to four hour inspection. They know that it will be meticulous, and methodical.

We are the SOLE party to the transaction that has no vested interest in whether the home sells or not. We are the SOLE advocate for our client.

Yet, the first thing we are asked by the client is "how much do you charge?" Many will go to the next inspector for $25.
That is why the agents who referred me always explained that I am usually the "highest paid" inspector in the area and that the client should not attempt to haggle over my prices.

Unless and until we, as industry professionals, change how we are perceived, we will cntinue to squabble about low-ballers.
I do my best to come across as an experienced home inspector who brings decades of education and expertise to the inspection site.

Even though the Realtor may say "always hire a home inspector", they are often the first to ask about the fee. If they think you charge too much, ask them to take a lower commission, and kick in the difference.
Once again, the real estate agents that I work with know my inspection fees and the client is prepped even before they call me.

Talk is cheap, especially when it comes from a home inspector. That's the perception, and therein lies the problem.

Do I have an answer? Nope.

We need to acknowledge the problem, and go about fixing our industry.
This bulletin board is a good place to start. As I stated earlier, if 10,000 home inspectors were to raise their prices to an absolute minimum of $400.00 and hold that price no matter what then the rest of the industry would follow.

[Henry Valenzano, CMI]

I still say the market will only bear so much. Here in colorado springs we had a HVAC Co. they were so big they bought up 3 other companies. as soon as they did that they raised there prices to 75.00 hr. After 1 year they lost so much money they had to go back to the old price schedule. But it was too late. They had to sell out to another co. The second company turns out that the owner has a felony. that part is still on going. Many of the people around here do not want a felon in there home. And yes many of the people in that company were Masters in there field. I was one of them so i know first hand. Pricing is going to be different from county to county not only state to state. I think the first thing to do to start raising prices is to start educating the realtors about fees. There you have 10,000 + realtors telling the buyers that a home inspection should be 200.00.

[Blaine Wiley]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Jim,

I have no answer. The effort needs to start at an industry level. With all the in-fighting between associations, and the power that NAR has, I wouldnt know where to begin.

Somehow our industry needs to advertise itself strongly to everyone. (have you heard all of the "hire a realtor, we follow a code of ethics ads?) Currently we're made up of a whole lot of independent businessmen and a few franchisors that all scatter like the spray of a shotgun blast. We have no industry marketing theme, and we don't collectively educate the buying public about what we do, why we do it, how we do it, and why it is so vitally important to them. Ask the average buyer what a home inspection is and you'll get a blank stare! Remember too that consumers think Realtors are overpaid for their effort, and on a rating level are considered higher only than the ambulance chasers.

We need to hone our message and blast it everywhere. Joes post a few back would be a good message for starters if cleaned up a little and put forth in a positive manner.

Question is, how does the industry we work in do that? Can we at NACHI set the tone and forge the path? What if we came up with some sort of ad, and every inspector could put it on his/her website, use it for flyers, etc. Radio ads would be good too! The more a message is repeated, the more people remember it.

I don't think at this point with the associations trying to protect their turf, and new law suits flying out daily that the industry will come together anytime soon. So, the one that takes the lead will certainly be the one the educated public flocks to.

[John Onofrey]

Great idea Blaine. You could start making ads at NACHI TV.

[Blaine Wiley]

John, Couldn't you put something like that in your newsletter? Repetitively??