Who would you rather hear an Ethics Complaint

[rdawes]

I realize this is totally unscientific and only a small percentage of NACHI members will respond but those who do are those who frequent the board and are the interested and concerned ones who help shape NACHI.

So the question is if you needed to file an ethics complaint or had one filed against you would you rather the case be heard by the MAB or the ESOP?

The MAB is elected. The MAB does currently have members such as myself who were appointed to fill vacancies. However, these members will have to run for re-election when the term they were appointed to expires.

The ESOP is appointed. As far as I can tell, it is appointed by Joe Farsetta. I think the question has been raised in the past as to how and why appointments were made but I have not seen an answer. If there is one, it would be worthwile information.

Reference information:

http://www.nachi.org/mabesopc060504.htm
http://www.nachi.org/mabethicscomplaintdraft060504.htm

Note that the ESOP still formulates the SOP and Ethics polices under these new guidelines. However, it does require them to have a regular review process and to get public comment on any changes.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Ron,

The ESOP is appointed.

Is that not being changed with the new guidelines for the ESOPC?

As for your question I would rather have ethics complaints handled in all aspects by a group of individuals who can maintain a professional detachment from the complainant and complainer. A group of professionals who can put asside any personal feelings, et al, and render an impartial and proper decision. Whether it is MAB or ESOPC would not matter to me.

I do believe though that the following entry in the "MAB Ethics Complaint Processing Procedure - draft version - 5/4/2006" serves no useful purpose and would only further, and unecessarily humiliate the offender. In addition, the ESOPC or MAB member vote result being publicly posted is also unecessary.

2.4. .................. The decisions shall then be published along with the complaint on the members section of the bulletin board. The individual votes of the MAB members will be public record.

[rdawes]

Originally Posted by escanlan

Is that not being changed with the new guidelines for the ESOPC?

Yes, that is the point.

As for your last issue: Enforcement actions are matters of public record in almost all organizations. Check the TREC web site to see who in TX got their hand slapped. And if you are not willing to have your vote on an ethics complaint be public, then a person should not serve in such a role. We are trying to end the back room secret crap.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Check the TREC web site to see who in TX got their hand slapped.

TREC is a government agency subject to the Sunshine laws, as are many other government agencies.

Enforcement actions are matters of public record in almost all organizations.

Interesting concept but the use of "almost all" and "public record" is certainly not true. Keeping with our own industry there have been sanctions against members in ASHI as well as TAREI. Yet they do not post a list of offenders. Can you please show me the location of the list of offenders that were caught breaking the Code Of Ethics in the National Association Of Realtors or the Texas Association Of Realtors? How about the "public record" list of offenders for any other non-governmental association?

What useful purpose does it serve to post the transgressions of any member in an area that all can view? As for publishing the decisions of the panel handling the incident, what value is there in publishing that?

We are trying to end the back room secret crap.

If, as I stated above, the individuals selected for this function are true professionals then there is no issue of "crap" occurring.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Hot off the presses... Latest ESOP edict. All peons please remove your hats in the presence of the Grand Fakir of Ethics. The following should be committed to memory.

[ekartal5]

Joe you crack me up.

Very few things these days make me laugh. NACHI is tops on the list.

This is home inspection entertainment at it's best.

[Nick Gromicko]

Joe Farsetta does his job very well in part because he is Joe Farsetta and in part because he is not hampered by an office that requires him to be popular.

[John Bowman]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Joe Farsetta does his job very well in part because he is Joe Farsetta and in part because he is not hampered by an office that requires him to be popular.

Agreed to a certain extent. However, Joe Farsetta has quit NACHI all together at least twice that I know of. The first time you talked him into staying and the second time I did. Each instance left NACHI and most importantly its membership in a quandry.

The MAB's thoroughly thought out and developed program is sound and just. It resolves itsself into a peer review system eliminating the dictatorial system and placement of all responsibility to the membership. The membership has asked for this fair and equitable system and we should not deny them.

I stand behind and endorse the MAB's program and recognize it as the NACHI policy and procedure effective immediately.

John Bowman
Executive Director,
National Association of
Certified Home Inspectors

[William J. Decker]

I believe it should be stated that the MAB, in developing these proposals, realize that they are not perfect. But they do give a good starting point, a basis upon which a better structure can be built.

We must remember that the leadership of NACHI has and does serve the membership, and has done so quite well. These leaders have done so on a volunteer basis. They have put in long hours or work and sweat, overcoming derision, frustration and just plain pig-headedness from some of the membership. It is a thankless job and we should be very greatful to them.

The reason that the current structure exists, with appointed leaders and the appearance of 'dictatorship', is because there has been a lack of good and qualified people who want to stand up and serve. This was a necessary condition when NACHI was getting started. The present structure will continue to exist until serious, responsible and qualified people step up and earn the offices. The earning will include the necessary toughness to put up with all the BS that will get thrown at them. If someone just 'resigns' whenever the going gets tough or when their feelings are hurt or when things don't go their own way, they are not the kind of person sof the job.

A true leader is someone who serves. It is one who gives and helps and has the best interest of others and the association as a whole in mind, always.

Until we see these type of people step forward, any change in the current structure will not succeed.

But I pray that they do.

[rdawes]

Will,

I gotta disagree with you on part of your opinion. We have good people willing to help out (such as yourself and many others). But there appears to be a behind the scenes power structure that is unwilling to give up any real authority to those willing to serve. So what you have is people who take on responsibility without authority to effect change. That is a recipe for frustration.

As I posted over on the thread in members only, the MAB crafted proposals that were unamimously approved, were submitted to and were approved by the ED, Pres, VP and appeared (at first) to be approved by Nick. So far it is meeting approval by 3/4 of those voting in this unscientific poll. Then Joe Farsetta voiced his displeasure quite loudly. It remains to be seen if Nick (who really controls all the marbles) will go with the volunteers who worked hard to craft something public, open, and fair and the membership or side with the old guard.

I'd love to see this voted on as a formal vote by the entire membership. What could be more fair and open than that?

[Richard L. Bennett]

What am I missing here?? This should not be a question of who - old or new --- it should be on what is the proper way of governing a committee.

Jurors are not elected just agreed on by both sides. In most cases it is plain hard to get people appointed or elected to take part in a voluntary org. And in most cases it is the new kid on the block that will raise his or her hand until they get the crap beaten out of them selves and back out.

Oh yes some people just like pain

I ask --- Please review the point of difference -- not the people

rlb

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

I do not know if any of the official positions in the various committees, boards, etc. have "term limits" or if any of this is laid out in a set of by-laws for I have never seen any. It appears that many of the positions have been filled by the same people since NACHI came into existence. If there are no by-laws there should be. That should have been one of the very first thing that was formed to govern the actions and outline the responsibilites of any (all) boards or individuals. Secondly perhaps there should be tight term limits for all positions so the same people are not always filling the various positions or positions are not just "swapped" among the few. This would help to eliminate any idea that someone could build a cabal and remain in power positions in perpetuity. If there are by-laws where would one go to look at them? There is always going to be organizational politics but there are methods to limit it. Number one is all egos have to be left at the door. A lot of the whining and complaining when it comes right down to it is about as important as a fart in a hurricane. Too many people place too much dependence and importance on NACHI, the staff, the boards and various programs "available" to the members. The real bottom line is run your own business, take advantage of the things offered as member benefits. If anyone is expecting an association to make or break them in business they have already lost. NACHI has some terrific programs, elements you can't or won't find anywhere else but it isn't the answer to every need to be successful in business. (the by-laws I am referring to are from the beginning of NACHI, not the new proposed guidelines)

My final thoughts are, if the ESOP isn't going to handle ethics issues then why have it? There may be some problems with having one committee handling ALL membership issues for all the obvious reasons. I get a little tired of seeing ALL the members of any committee get painted with a broad brush with accusations of being in someones pocket. Some of the members were asked to be on a committee and volunteered only to be immediately slammed just by being on the committee. Small wonder few want to "step forward" in this atmosphere. There appears to be a small cadre of people who want to control every aspect and element of NACHI and when their wishes aren't realized they do everything they can to create hate and discontent.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by wdecker

The earning will include the necessary toughness to put up with all the BS that will get thrown at them. If someone just 'resigns' whenever the going gets tough or when their feelings are hurt or when things don't go their own way, they are not the kind of person sof the job.

Thats right Will, those of us who are willing to tough it out and attempt to blaze new trails & build bridges were there was none before are in the end tracked down, tried & convicted without recourse or defense and condemned to exile by the current ESOP committee for our efforts.

Good luck finding anyone worthy who will be willing to serve under the current conditions.

What you will most likely find will be similar to what is happening in the CMI program which at this time only attracts those who are less then qualified or are seeking only to feather their own nest.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

I am going to try and save my wristwatch, its too late for the shoes....the sh*t is getting a little deep in here.

[Richard L. Bennett]

who are less then qualified