Areas with new HI license laws coming up.

[Scott Truslow]

I strongly suggest you get involved and go directly to who ever wrote the bill. READ IT, read it again, and again, and attack the errors now. Once passed into law it’s very hard to get it changed. Our TN law was very poorly written; there are so many holes in it. The regulations are not backed up, the law is not enforced unless someone actually files a complaint (basically the department set up to administer the law does not have the ability to check what is going on). There is no true set procedures and they use terms like “indirectly involved in the inspection”, which I am told can mean anything. You can look at many inspectors and most do not report or do what is required by law, which leaves some inspectors doing more work (because we are ethical and professionals).
Example of the errors in the law; they made no provision for safety issues, basically if I find a major gas leak at a home I can not (by law) tell the owner (even if they are there and burning a fire, cooking, etc) about the leak until I have gained permission from my client to do so. There are inspectors violating the law all over the place and even if I tell the commission, give them exact details they will do nothing until I file the official complaint and go to court if needed. So I am saying get involved read the law and get on getting the changes done first.

[Scott Patterson]

Originally Posted by struslow

I strongly suggest you get involved and go directly to who ever wrote the bill. READ IT, read it again, and again, and attack the errors now. Once passed into law it’s very hard to get it changed. Our TN law was very poorly written; there are so many holes in it. The regulations are not backed up, the law is not enforced unless someone actually files a complaint (basically the department set up to administer the law does not have the ability to check what is going on). There is no true set procedures and they use terms like “indirectly involved in the inspection”, which I am told can mean anything. You can look at many inspectors and most do not report or do what is required by law, which leaves some inspectors doing more work (because we are ethical and professionals).
Example of the errors in the law; they made no provision for safety issues, basically if I find a major gas leak at a home I can not (by law) tell the owner (even if they are there and burning a fire, cooking, etc) about the leak until I have gained permission from my client to do so. There are inspectors violating the law all over the place and even if I tell the commission, give them exact details they will do nothing until I file the official complaint and go to court if needed. So I am saying get involved read the law and get on getting the changes done first.

All laws have flaws and errors in them. The TN license law has some as you have noted, but changes are underway. I think the commission went through 5 administrators before the current one (Nikole Avers) was placed in the position. She came over from the appraisal board and had made a ton of changes. One change that was made to the "Rules" is that you can notify an owner of a home if you find a dangerous condition. This was a simple housekeeping change to the rules, I think it was made back in late 2009.

Yes, you have to fill out the complaint form if you have a complaint about an inspector. It is not that big of a deal, the form is online and fairly simple. I have filled it out a few times when I have found and inspector working without a license. You should not let a form stop you from turning in folks who are breaking the law and taking away from your business share of the market. As for going to court? The court if it ever came down to it is a hearing at the commissions office and not a big deal. Take a look at the past disciplinary actions that the board has undertaken on licensed individuals. http://tn.gov/commerce/boards/archive.shtml

Give Niccole a call and she can update you on the changes that have taken place in the license law and the rules that govern it. The rules can be changed in TN if the Director of the commission approves them and if a similar rule is enforce with another board.

Some changes that are in the works for 2011 is the time limit of liability after an inspection. Right now it is 6 years under contract law in TN, but The board is working on changing it to the same as what the appraisers have in TN and that is 1 year. My guess is that we will get between 1-3 years. If it can be done via the rules then it is a simple matter.

[Nick Gromicko]

basically if I find a major gas leak at a home I can not (by law) tell the owner (even if they are there and burning a fire, cooking, etc) about the leak until I have gained permission from my client to do so.

Not true.

Anyway, all I can say is that we are very pleased with Nikole Avers. Her department is an example of how all government offices should be run.

InterNACHI's Pre-Licensing program is approved in Tennessee and our free, online inspection courses are approved for continuing education in Tennessee.

[Scott Truslow]

I agree that ms Avers is the best we have had and I find that she is very willing to assist but worded in the law NOT the rules.. Chapter 65 # 9 sub 6.

(6) Disclosing information concerning the results of a home inspection
without the approval of the client or the client's legal representative, except under a court order.

There is no sub giving any release for safety or issues of peril. And I can not find any statement saying the commision can make a rule dismissing the law.

[Nick Gromicko]

You are confusing the law with the spirit of the law. The spirit of that law and why it exists is very clear.... and you alerting someone about a high risk situation that could kill them doesn't violate the spirit of that law. Two of InterNACHI's three attorneys are Judges and years ago, they explained it to me.

[Scott Truslow]

Scott, I was mainly trying to tell others to address the issues before it becomes law. My issues with our state are my issues I just don't want others to have to have issues after the law is put in place. It is hard to get the law changed.
And Scott you operate in a large area I am in a small good buddy area, I file a complaint on someone and it could be the end of my business.
I also have a problem with our law stating anyone directly or INDIRECTLY involved in the home inspection has to be licensed (according to two attorneys the word indirectly opens up a whole can of mess). And it is not a rule but law. So how do you train a helper to grow? You can’t train them on site unless they are licensed. If you have an HVAC tech out with you they become part of the inspection should they be a licensed inspector? Opens up a can of mess!
PS. what started me not caring to much for the whole thing here in TN is that even one of the "inspectors" on the first advisory board was operating (after the law took effect) without a license and when I addressed the commison about it it seemed to be thrown in my lap. We needed a law but it needs work that should have been done to start with. I am mad at myself for not getting on it before it became law.

[Scott Truslow]

Thanks, and I know as I have talked to the commison about it that they wouldn't fault me. I just don't like rules or laws that don't say everything. I know no one would fault me for bring out a safety issue but why didn't they say that in teh law. Maybe I have been bit in the past by lawyers who were better at manipulting the spirit of the law than my lawyer. I guess that is why I like things spelled out. And yes when I was a kid and someone left a candy basket saying only take one I only took one...

[Scott Truslow]

Sorry didn't spell check.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Scott -

I think you're being a little shy. If someones screwing up - file a complaint. People will take care of you. Nobody really minds. Trust me I grew up in a strong union family in an Italian neighborhood. We always took care of snitches.

In looking at the web site Scott Patterson posted I went back 1 year and looked at HI complaints. Two were for unlicensed inspecting. A couple were for not checking things (like polarity of outlets). Most were for NOT continually maintaining insurance.

Based on that 12 month period, it doesn't seem like there was much need for licensure.

[Gary Farnsworth]

Based on that 12 month period, it doesn't seem like there was much need for licensure.


Laws are only written and passed by those who create them for the benefit of themselves and their special interest groups who finance re-election campaigns. Home inspection licensing is not needed in any state. The free enterprise system has worked for decades. Now, lawmakers just want to make names for themselves, and screw everything up. Health care, immigration, banks and mortgages, wars, you name it. OK. I cannot stand to stay off of this board. I must be addictive.

[James H. Bushart]

If I sell tests....I want to lobby for a law to "protect consumers" by forcing people to pay me to take my test.

If I sell education....I want to lobby for a law to "protect consumers" by forcing people to pay me to take my course.

A Missouri congressman told nine of us last January that we were wasting our time in our efforts to convince him that the licensing bill he had announced his intentions to support would make a bad law. His words to us were "It is not about what is right or wrong. It's all about the money. I hate to put it this way, but it's true."

He added "You may as well put a 'For Sale' sign in the Capital lawn."

This guy was not up for re-election due to term limitations and could afford to be honest.

[Gary Farnsworth]

I thought the Kansas laws where the worse in the nation, now since I read the Missouri HB 122, this Missouri law would be worse than Kansas. Biggest joke that I have ever read.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gfarnsworth

I thought the Kansas laws where the worse in the nation, now since I read the Missouri HB 122, this Missouri law would be worse than Kansas. Biggest joke that I have ever read.

Since Jim with his new found support for HI licensing can no longer say this I will- Licensing Solves Nothing

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Since Jim with his new found support for HI licensing can no longer say this I will- Licensing Solves Nothing

Just been waiting for someone to quote some history! LOL

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Just been waiting for someone to quote some history! LOL

I'm thinking of naming him the back peddler in chief.

Fits well doesn't it?