Carefull on Education..

[Richard L. Bennett]

Nick has posted some of the positive points about online education

Here are some additional thoughts

If we are going to be the best HI org then we must have the best HI's as members and that means EDUCATION.

On site field training with an instructor is NOT where it is at. The instructor can be someone who can't make it as an inspector so he becomes a teacher.
And the 40 hr required for hands on looks like one work week and that should be at least TWO inspections a day thus 10 homes.

K-12 charter schools are online and accepted in many areas. They even get tax $$ equal to what is spent on a per student in a school. -- The charter school pays for the computer and the internet connection!! (and they are making $$)

Doctors are receiving more and more of their eduction on line. They are even doing some medical procedures online. I saw a mobile video conferencing setup on TV making the rounds at a hospital. The online Doctor is coming

If states like NY do not wake up to what the rest of the world is doing in the area quality online education they will get a licensed and regulated team of HIs that are not qualified to inspect an out house. - EDUCATION is the weak link.

I would be willing to bet that right now HI instructors are not LICENSED HI's

One final thought -- If anyone is into computer gaming just think how an online home inspection could be developed using the gaming concept

I bet that the day will come when a Jr inspector will be in the field with a wireless link to the office where a Master Inspector will be supervising him and maybe a hand full of other inspectors at the same time.

Inspecting certain homes are better done with a robot. Look what the military is doing. The drive by inspection will come and it will be better than any master inspector would ever expect to do.

I am sure that some additional information about the NY system is in order. I have not been following it and I am sure that all the schools are good and are providing quality education. It goes without saying that the STATE will be regulating the schools to the point that they will be producing the best HI's that money can buy.

I would like some day to put some of the classroom educated HI's up against some of the online educated HI's in a testing environment.

rlb

[Robert J. Hutchinson]

"I would like some day to put some of the classroom educated HI's up against some of the online educated HI's in a testing environment. "

rlb[/quote]


Richard,

Amen!

[Claude Lawrenson]

I am a professor of Architecture and Building Design and have been facilitating online home inspection courses (Intro to Home Inspections, Structures and a Building Science course) that are widely recognized for the past 3 years. These are offered through a community college in Toronto Ontario. I live in Windsor Ontario (across from Detroit Mich) approximately 4 hours drive from that location. These have been taken by participants across Canada, some U.S. states, and even those in other foreign countries.

There are several caveats to assuring that online courses are accepted. The key point includes a valid means of verifying the participants assessment - in our case through proctored exams. Another helpful means to assure help and assistance to the participants is through the use of chats and online discussions, to help prepare participants to succeed. These are all part of the course design to assure rigidity, integrity and built into the course design. The program has received such wide recognition and acceptance that we now offer a graduate level studies - that is recognized by the Ministry of Colleges and Universities (provincial education authority). So my point being - online education should not be easily discounted if there is a means of verification and rigidity built into the course.

Many of our inspectors have gone on to be very successful home inspectors. One thing to remember that online course are not meant for those with very low self-motivation. It takes lot of self-discipline and self-motivation to succeed.

[rpaul]

Claude and anyone else,

This is the point of what I said earlier. The situation is accountability of the course. Just like the state of NY did with the Fire Science Courses, instead of just giving the credits. We had to show the knowlegde we had learned. This is one of things that personally help me. Learning everything I could about buildings, Structure, stability and Fire Safety.
Not to blow my own horn but other inspectors who have been around me here in some courses. I can size up a building from the outside, tell you basically where rooms are just by looking at the house. The Basic Structure, I learned that in a class. So countability is the key purpose! If the school has it then it should go for the gold.
I also understand about the online Univerties but as nick said. Would you want your Doctor making decissions about your life through just an online course? Well good for up if you do. Personally not me. So why should I expect my clients too.

Rick

[Claude Lawrenson]

I agree but we are not "doctors" - that is certainly one thing, but home inspection takes technical knowledge, defect recognition training, communication and reporting skills, and onsite practical inspection experience. All but the last one can be learned online. We find that mentoring our students refines and puts significant value to the first four requisites into developing good home inspectors. Life and safety issues are the closest we need think home inspectors come at nearing the skills required of doctors.l

[Richard L. Bennett]

Two schools of thought

Another point - some people enjoy the classroom learning exp.

I just don't see the cost effectiveness of a traditional classroom education. In all areas of education online is the direction. Schools are buying and or requiring computers for all. It is a new world.

Remember traditional classroom education is big $$. The teachers union is one of the largest left alive. The text book business is alive and well. And people with $$ don't want to see some one get to the top of the food chain with out paying their dooos

----- You have got to do 1000000 inspection before you are any good -----
---------Have you payed your doooos???????------------

rlb

People cheat on proctored exams.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Hmm...Just a thought.....

One year at the local level I did a online class on basic electrical theory to the community college of (2) cities and I have to tell you this. They learned more in those classes than my local LIVE class did simply because of less interuptions, less stories that took us off track ( my fault..lol ) and so on and to be honest with you I met some of the students weeks after and I was surprised how much they retained.

I think and this is my opinion...online courses can be a great asset to some and some people just need live environments to learn..everyone is different but I can say this....in my opinion proctored means nothing to me...and I have been through MANY proctored exams....

Look...you either know the info or you dont...if you cheat in a non-proctored exam...you will most likely have to use a BOOK anyway and finding things will slow you down....eat up time and cause you to stress and probably do worse so in the case of the national home inspectors exam...if you can't pass that off general memory then really consider if you learned anything at all regardless of online or live training....that test is BASIC info only.

Anyway...just wanted to give my (2) cents on the online training because I have been on the GIVING end of it...and those kids were awesome and learned alot......of course their is a bad seed in every class but hey...in high school that seed was me anyway...thehehehe

[jtedesco1]

Hey Paul:

Nice stuff Dude! Can I buy you a beer at the convention? Anyway, were the online classes you presented visual, and with audio, or were they just as Instructor led, and text, etc.?

I am pushing around an idea where I would answer questions on the phone that would be transmitted.

I am not too sure of how this could happen, but would be willing to give it a try. I have a better handle on actual "code speak" than I do with the test on these pages.

I am sure we know why! Ain't that right Todd?

Any suggestions Dude!

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Nick -

I only have personal experience with the inspectors in a 4 state radius and as a rule the ones that took a home correspondence course or online HI course versus an on-site class generally have ended up being a poor group of home inspectors - not all but most of them, with way less overall knowledge than the other guys OR with technical knowledge up the rear but no practical knowledge. In my own personal experience, those that were too busy in their personal lives to go to school for 1-2 weeks to enter a new profession seldom had the drive to be really good at this.

[Robert J. Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Nick -

I only have personal experience with the inspectors in a 4 state radius and as a rule the ones that took a home correspondence course or online HI course versus an on-site class generally have ended up being a poor group of home inspectors - not all but most of them, with way less overall knowledge than the other guys OR with technical knowledge up the rear but no practical knowledge. In my own personal experience, those that were too busy in their personal lives to go to school for 1-2 weeks to enter a new profession seldom had the drive to be really good at this.

Unfortunately, the thread that I started has erroded to a point that an VERY important (original point) has been lost. I was and am talking about Distance Learning AND (did you get the "AND") field experience. In my case, I took the Distance Learning class AND I immediately started working with an EXPERIENCED and grandfathered Home Inspector for hands-on experience. Besides, my background includes drafting; architecture; building my own 3000 sq ft home INCLUDING electrical/plumbing/heating, etc...none was contracted out;subing to build other homes and additions. I do my own home repairs and am often called by others to do their repairs. So, I hardly doubt that I am unfit to become a good inspector. I suspect that many others have similar stories. Just because a handful of students from distance learning have failed to become good inspectors, does not classify all. Have you taken a poll on the amount of college students who become nothing; bad doctors, etc.? I have met and had to work with these unfortunate souls and it ain't pretty. College ("the classroom" experience) generally equals PARTY, unfortunately. Now those "classroom" doctors, I wouldn't trust to administer on my worst enemy. Many are unfit for most occupations and become burdens instead of assets. So, there are reasons for both sides of the educational "fence". Next time, take a poll on the "flunky" inspectors in a wider area than just 4 states who have taken classroom courses...I'll bet that you find just as many of those as the "flunky" distance learning inspectors.

[Robert J. Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Nick -

...... In my own personal experience, those that were too busy in their personal lives to go to school for 1-2 weeks to enter a new profession seldom had the drive to be really good at this.

You know, I am getting pretty SICK of your continual ONE-SIDED view on the reason people take distance learning classes. I got that "piece of paper called a diploma" and that makes me the best doctor in the world. I took the "classroom experience" and now I am the best home inspector in the world! Give me a break! It is NOT that people are too busy to take time out of their personal lives, it just is that these people, myself included, are living in the 21st century and do not have our heads stuck in a time warp from years ago.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Robert -

You're missing something OR I'm not being clear enough.

In my experience (not someone elses experience), here is what I've found in my area (not your area - my area). Yes I've taken both online and home study courses myself and am fully aware of the pluses and minuses.

[gporter]

Dan I also worked afull-time job have 2 kids and a wife that works so it would also be hard to get away for 2 weeks and pay for a hotel. I for one do not like to leave my wife holding the bag. I bet you were single at the time with no responsibilities or I could be wrong. But since you are against on-line training. Please fill us in on your status at the time you took the class.

[gporter]

Dan provide the stats and specific experience. Since you stood up strong to the mic to speak it is time for question and answers.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Gary -

I started doing home inspections part-time (at night and on weekends) in 1978 while working as a project manager for a 5,000 house-a-year home builder. In late 1983 the real estate market in Texas started to crash and my wife got a job offer to move to Missouri as a Quality Control Person for a Hospital. We moved and I decided to go into HI's full-time.

Although I had been raised in a foundation/street building/heavy equipment family; had gone to college to be a Mechanical Engineer (HVAC Major); had worked as Factory Service Rep for both an Appliance & HVAC Manufacturer for 4 yrs; AND as a Project Manager for a Residential Builder for 5 yrs, AND
by that time I had done HI's part-time for 4-5 years - - I realized that if doing Home Inspections was going to be my full-time career and profession, I didn't wanta be 2nd rate (I'd already seen my fair share of those type). So I called all over the country and found only 2 places to get Home Inspection Training. One was run by Russ Burgess in Dallas (that one has changed hands and names several times since then and is now the ITA/Kaplan place in Dallas - nothing like it was in 1984), and the 2nd school was in the Washington, DC area and run by John Cox (ASHI's John Cox Award is Dedicated to John) and Speed Williams (both of whom are now deceased).

There really was no comparison between the 2, and I flew to DC for their week long class which was held at a Holiday Inn in Silver Springs, MD. My wife, son and Rottweilers stayed home. After the week long class, I stayed in the DC area for another week and rode with 3 local home inspectors.

Thats how I got started in HI.