Dear Missouri Association of Realtors....

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dbush

I realize that MAREI is but a few miles from me, I am a member, have known it's founder for MANY years, and have a great deal of respect for Mark. I realize it is far from being a Local St. Louis Issue; however, it has primarily been pushed and started from St. Louis area. I am not pro-licensing; as a matter of fact, I am anti-licensing, but I don't try to sweep a man's death from carbon monoxide poisoning into an anti-licensing point of mine. I just don't get the co-relation. But I didn't always agree with a lot of things you did last year either under NACHI's name as anti-licensing.

Let me explain it to you, again.

A poorly trained and educated unlicensed builder directed a contractor to commit a deadly act. The unlicensed contractor, who was evidently as poorly trained as the builder, did what he was told, and died.

These two unlicensed people who do not know enough to protect their own lives....were in the act of building a dwelling full of electricity and natural gas....for someone else to live (or die) in.

Now, do you get the corelation?

Would you go to a dentist who removed his own teeth with dynomite?

Would you go to a proctologist who could not identify his own anus?

Neither would I.

Where is the concern that the MAR has for the "consumer" in this case? Why does the MAR fight licensing for builders who send contractors to their death? Why does the MAR fight licensing for the contractors who obviously could use a little training to protect themselves from the guys signing their checks?

There is a corelation, Dave, whether you understand it or not.

[John McKenna]

A law is good when it enables the consumer a means to prosecute
those who cause them damage.

States that create low bar requirements and no enforcement licensing
laws are the proof that those type of laws solve nothing.

That is not the case in Texas. Realtors fear me, and I fear the law...
as it should be. BTW... we are a republic (nation of law) and you
can save the canned comments about communist dictators for flag day.

Some people do not want the enforcement of the SoP (proper licensing)
because of selfish reasons too. Part time hair dressers-inspectors
do like them either.

The HI industry is birthing into accountability of a regulated, monitored,
highly qualified, well trained, professional consumer advocate. We need
to raise our prices... to reflect this higher calling... IMHO.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

IMHO.

You're entitled to that, as are those who disagree with you.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

The HI industry is birthing into accountability of a regulated, monitored,
highly qualified, well trained, professional consumer advocate.
Just into its adolescence but far from mature

We need to raise our prices... to reflect this higher calling... IMHO.

We need to get the standards and HI/CMI requirements much higher to demand higher prices!!!

[John McKenna]

In 2000 BC ... King Hammurabi passed a law if the son of a home owner died,
because of a collapse, then the son of the builder would be sacrificed as a
restitution. This king was the greatest ruler in the first Babylonian dynasty.

LAW AND CODE DEVELOPMENT

Death due to typhoid - linked to plumbing.
Laws were enacted in the 1800's.

English public heath codes - 1848

NY Metropolitan Board of Heath codes
and health laws - 1868 - 1870

Chicago fire - 1870
Boston fire - 1872
New codes passed and the creation
of the NFPA (National Fire Protection
Agency created in 1896)

1905 - Fires Underwriters Association

1930 - 1940 .. National Building Code
created for the safety of occupants.

Codes and law provide a minimum standard to safeguard the public,
but do not guarantee efficiency or quality.

Now we have codes for....
Sanitary facilities, electric, ventilation, construction, materials, safety,
plumbing, energy conservation. through the ICC, ICBO, IRC, NFPA,
NEC, etc....

Regardless of the problems I have with too many laws, we live in a better,
cleaner, safer country than those areas that are lawless, unclean, and provide
no means for the consumer to be protected from damage and prosecute
those that cause the damage.

Not all laws are bad.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

In 2000 BC ... King Hammurabi passed a law if the son of a home owner died,
because of a collapse, then the son of the builder would be sacrificed as a
restitution. This king was the greatest ruler in the first Babylonian dynasty.

LAW AND CODE DEVELOPMENT

Death due to typhoid - linked to plumbing.
Laws were enacted in the 1800's.

English public heath codes - 1848

NY Metropolitan Board of Heath codes
and health laws - 1868 - 1870

Chicago fire - 1870
Boston fire - 1872
New codes passed and the creation
of the NFPA (National Fire Protection
Agency created in 1896)

1905 - Fires Underwriters Association

1930 - 1940 .. National Building Code
created for the safety of occupants.

Codes and law provide a minimum standard to safeguard the public,
but do not guarantee efficiency or quality.

Now we have codes for....
Sanitary facilities, electric, ventilation, construction, materials, safety,
plumbing, energy conservation. through the ICC, ICBO, IRC, NFPA,
NEC, etc....

Regardless of the problems I have with too many laws, we live in a better,
cleaner, safer country than those areas that are lawless, unclean, and provide
no means for the consumer to be protected from damage and prosecute
those that cause the damage.

Not all laws are bad.

The Missouri Association of Realtors disagrees with you, John.

They feel that codes are bad and use their powerful lobby to keep them from being uniform throughout the state. Over two thirds of our counties have no codes and those that do have little enforcement.

No, the Missouri Association of Realtors (with the support of the HBA) want to keep the costs of building homes as low as possible. Of course, the reason for low costs/high sales price is obviously for the profits (and commissions) but the official stance is that they want to keep home prices lower for the consumer.

If you believe that, then you will believe that Missouri house salesmen are pleased with the housing slump and the lower prices that houses are currently going for. For some reason, though, they are not pleased. Go figure.

So....anyway.....these laws that you love to see do not fit into their agenda.

Instead, last year....they pushed HB 326 that would give a salesman immunity if you later tried to sue him for intentionally tconcealing the fact that a pedophile lived in the condo next door to the one he sold you.

MAR lobbied for that law....and against building codes.

And these are the people that think they should govern the home inspector through legislation?

Like I said before, John, you have been born and grown up in the HI profession under licensing and know no other option. To you, like the Kurds living in Iraq, they would prefer life no other way.

But there is a better way...one worth fighting to defend. And we are doing it here, in Missouri.

[John McKenna]

Being on the anti-MAR wagon is nice and the witty Kurds
comment is forgiven. Long live the freedom fighters.

Have a happy new year my friend.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

We need to get the standards and HI/CMI requirements much higher to demand higher prices!!!

I raise my prices and it works for me...

[Michael R. Boyett]

Jim, why does the ICC show that Missouri has adopted the IRC and other I-codes statewide? It would appear that Missouri is much like all other states in that the IRC has been adopted statewide however smaller jurisdictions may not have the resources to inspect for compliance. That doesn't relieve a builder, remodeler, etc from having to abide by it though. If the ICC is wrong you should let them know.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mboyett

That doesn't relieve a builder, remodeler, etc from having to abide by it though. If the ICC is wrong you should let them know.

There is no code and/or enforcement in over two-thirds of the state. Perhaps the ICC is referring to contracts with the State, itself.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Yes, that is likely the case I suspect.

[dbush]

Mike, the ICC is the recognized Authority; however, that is ONLY in the counties that have Code Enforcement or Code Requirements, as Jim says, most Counties don't although many Municipalities do, and they abide by ICC.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

If you look at Missouri's law regarding codes, you will discover 3rd class counties don't have codes unless by a special vote of the local population.

Less than 10 years ago, Jeferson City (the state capital) had codes BUT the county did not. The folks that kept voing it down was not so much the bldrs, but the people themselves - didn't want sum big city SOB telling them what they could do on their own land by Gum.

Yeah buddy ............

[James E. Braun, CMI]

The people of the county (Cole county) was mainly enraged about the proposed county codes because of the abusiveness of the county. I always do free consulting work for innocent citizens who are being battered by some of the unruly Cole county officials. It appears the less money you have, the worst you get treated by the county. The city does not appear to have this problem.
Also in some small towns that have codes, they are using codes over ten years old. It is buyer beware in most of Missouri.

[dbush]

James, I know all the towns in this area that are using codes, Joplin, Webb City, Carthage, etc., are all using the 2003 NEC; however, build outside the city limits and that is a different story; course I have annoyed several builders that decided to build outside town.