Do you think ICC should be req for HI's??

[Richard L. Bennett]

Think on this one

ICC becomes a state requirement to be an HI's

We become better at the task than the local BI (not hard)

Can you see the legal issues here??

Can you see the debates in the front yard of the home?

--- This could be the HI of the future -- This could be real power

rlb

[James H. Bushart]

It would be a great way to thin out the competition, Dick.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Maybe I am on to something here

These test are affordable and a standard across the country

If we are required to know code we would be on the same level as the local BI and we also would be be licensed -- How could the local BI question us??

rlb

[gbeaumont]

Hi to all,

Richard, I can see many advantages to HI's becomming ICC certified especiallyin this state where the law allows 3rd party inspections for most permitted construction.

As Dom stated in another thread, no one can be doing their clients any justice without a strong knowledge of code when performing phase inspections. Also if you wish to start performing QA inspections directly for builders (and that is a growing market) the ICC combination certificate is the minimum level of competence that they will want to see.

Personally I see our business changing great deal over the comming years, and the lines between code inspectors, HI's, appraisors and adjusters becomming very blured. This will be brought about by standardization needed by the banks and insurance companies, who I believe will be looking for property inspectors that also have standard credentials, I believe that the ICC standards are the most applicable here.

Another thing to concider is that many states who have enacted licensing for home inspectors have accepted code certifications as part of there grandfathering provisions, that may be a big issue in some states future licensing.

Do I believe that ICC should be mandated for home inspectors? no I don't. but I believe that anyone who is planning on still being in business 10 years from now should concider what ICC credentials can do for their business.

Regards

Gerry

[Joe Farsetta]

It can also become a two-edged sword when it comes to liability for the home inspector, as it goes to having special knowledge.

It can also become a sticky thing, as an inspector who calls out something as not meeting code, may find himself sitting across from a municipal building inspector in court, where the BI is testifying that he is the AHJ, and the nspector is not. Imagine calling out code violations on a home that had been on the market for a year, with no real offers. A client comes along, makes an offer, and you are hired to inspect it. Your inspection is chocked full of "code issues". The deal is killed, and the homeowner calls the local building inspector in, who states that nothing is wrong, and he is the person who legally makes that determination. Next thing you know, you are being sued by the homeowner (it can happen).

As to insurance companies standardizing on ICC certs as a qualification, I have not seen it. Insurance companes are primarily interested in cost of replacement inspections. Banks still dont even require pesticide licenses when accepting WDI inspections, so I think they have a ways to go. HUD doesnt require ICC certs of any of their licensed inspectors Appraisers will likely never be required to have an ICC cert.

So, is having one beneficial? It depends on your market (competition has it, you should too), and it depends on how you plan to use it. Not a bad thing to have, I suppose. Its up to the individual inspector. Also, look into having that "special knowledge". It is a legal term, with very real legal ramifications.

As an example, here n NY, I have a pestcide applicators license. I therefore have special knowledge in the field. As such, I am obligated to perform a WDI inspection on every structure I inspect, regardless of whether I charge for it. And, I do. I just do not include the NPMA-33 in the report for free. If you want that form, you have to pay for it.

So, what if you have the ICC cert, and miss something. Could you get sued, especially if you advertise that you have an ICC certification? You bet. So what, you say. Inspectors get sued all the time, right? Not for building code related issues, as a home inspection is not a code compliance inspection. But now, you have special knowledge....

[James H. Bushart]

Joe,

Would not the reverse be also true --- ?

If I were to advertise my ICC Certification and omit an item from my report that I felt complied with code, but the AHJ disagreed at some point in the future and gigged it - could I not be held accountable for "missing" it?

[Greg Bell]

Hello Joe,

Interesting points and ones that should be considered. I think that your concern over being to qualified could be made with any type of training that an inspector chooses to obtain. Whether it be septic tanks, IR, Manufactured homes and any others that you can think of.

I just want to clarify one point here as I see this argument against obtaining ICC Certification coming up again and again. The only time an inspector should be quoting code is on a new constriction inspection or a warranty inspection. Code has no place in the resale market. As for the insurance industry I think the qualifications will be changing over the next few years, only time will tell.

As for Richards question I would have to answer no that it should not be made mandatory.

[Leonard E. Ungar]

James;
You know as well as I do that you report everything that is a concern, just make sure you word it properly. We are not code inspectors we are generalists. I also believe knowledge is power as long as you don't flaunt it and missuse it. Like Joe said it can work both ways just CYA !!!!!!
Len

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Another thing to concider is that many states who have enacted licensing for home inspectors have accepted code certifications as part of there grandfathering provisions, that may be a big issue in some states future licensing.

What states are these, Gerry?

[lagudo]

This is a really good post but one that also causes confusion for new inspectors. I have 25 yrs of building experience, 18 in my own business but have only been in this business for 8 months as a home inspector. I have read these message boards and have found them to be extremely informative and also very helpful in questions that I have asked.

What I find confusing is are we code enforcers or generalist. Isn't true that if a homeowner wants a code inspection that they can call the local building department and schedule one. As I have read alot of RR's post should we all be going the way of a tech inspection. That way we have every system covered by a qualified, licensed technician and we act as the conduit to the seller/homeowner. Of course this type of inspection is thousands of dollars.

If we are ICC certified and we site code in our report, are we liable for a code violation that we missed. Yes I know, that is what E+O is for. I also understand that I could be liable for an error that I make in my report that has nothing to do with code.

I believe that having code certification is a big plus in the home inspection industry but I like being the generalist to my clients and deferring to a qualified, licensed tech for futher evaluation when finding a safety issue with my barometer being the code.

One big plus of being code certified is the ability of being able to do new home inspections. I did not know the requirements that builders want until I thought I was hired for my first new construction inspection. No code certification, no inspection. I have since turned down four new home inspections all in the last month. I have code check and the code book. Are there any study guides that you guys can tell me about to get me on the right path?

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by jbushart

What states are these, Gerry?

James,

I am rushing for a flight this morning I will post more on this later, However I believe you need ICC to perform any new contructions inspections in GA and that the Texas regulations allow for ICC certification in leu of other training.

I may br guilty of overstating the case with the word many, lets use several.

Also several staes that have no yet enacted licensing like FL and again GA have specifically addressed ICC in their previous drafts.

BTW, will we be seeing you in KC tomorrow?

Regards

Gerry

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

BTW, will we be seeing you in KC tomorrow?

No, sir. Commitments were made prior this meeting being announced.

[hspinnler]

Louis,

Here in GA many contracts for new homes state that inspector must be CABO certified. CABO was the predecessor to ICC. Depending on the municipality, GA still is on the 2000 CABO with Ammendments. If you have been trained or received code certifications within the last 3 years or so, ICC is the one.

Regarding study and reference material, you can purchase sample questions from ICC somewhere on their website. http://www.iccsafe.org/certification/combocerts.html#ci

You can also obtain study guides from Out of the Mound Publishers. www.codestudyguides.com or attend courses from local home inspection schools. There are four that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Greg Bell]

Hi Louis,

There is no reason for being confused. It is really simple, you don't need ICC Certification for resale inspections. You should have it for new construction.

We are bringing our ICC Boot Camp to Atlanta in October. It will be a two day event that covers all four sections for residential Certification. It also will include our new Assurance Check Educator (The ACE Program).

The ACE Program is run on your computer with files that we create. You sit in front of your computer with your code book and look up each question. I feel that this is the best way to prepare for the code tests. All attendees of the Atlanta event will receive all four modules (Building, Electrical, Plumbing and Mechanical). Each module has a database of questions that pertain to that subject. The building module has over 270 questions in it at this time. The questions are given in random sequence each time you open the file. It will give you one question at a time with multiple choice answers. Once you select your answer it will tell you if you are correct and gives the code reference that you should have found while looking for the answer yourself. We expect to have the final version from the developer next week. I will be e-mailing it and the first two modules (Electrical and Building) to the people that have paid for the upcoming event in Orlando.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

and that the Texas regulations allow for ICC certification in leu of other training.

Unfortunately, that's not the case here in Texas. TREC currently does not recognize ICC training for any of the required Core 448 hours nor does it accept ICC certification, at any level, in lieu of training. TREC does accept ICC training for Continuing Education requirements just not the basic Core requirements. So, once you get your Texas HI license then you can get credit for future ICC CE courses but that's it right now. There has been some talk about changing this but no one is pushing it so I doubt that the rules will change anytime soon.