First Fundamentals Course Available In Washington State

[Steven C. Meyer]

I harken back to about 1996, and as recall, there was someone, or group, that was "offering" hands on home inspection training
for about $1,500.

Inflation, it will kill ya!!

[Steven L. Smith]

Jim and Steven,

You two are comparing apples to oranges. We are talking college level here, not grade school and high school. In this state, probably yours too, college faculty do not have to have teaching credentials. I ought to know, I work as adjunct faculty, have for years and have two college degrees, but not a teaching certificate. My wife teaches parttime at WWU, a four year state college that offers a master's degree, and she does not have a teaching certificate. I do not need one to be hired in the college system and she does not need one either. Her professional accomplishments in her field stand on their own. She would need a certificate to teach at the primary level. You guys have your facts wrong. What you say may apply in kindergarten but not in adult education.

If you are at the college level, most colleges, professional experience is the factor that counts....not a teaching certificate. I had journalism courses from one of the top journalists in the country. Do you really think they would make Walter Cronkite get a teaching certificate to teach a journalism class. Same thing with doctors, lawyers, journalists, authors. I know many college faculty, who DO NOT have the basic teaching certificate. Those in the education programs, as in teaching the teachers, do. Those in art, business, medicine, law are likely to be accomplished professionals who never got such a certificate. Think adult education here, not kids.

[Steven L. Smith]

Steven,

I answered this before, for Jim. You needed to apply at a college not the levels through high school. At a technical college, almost all instructors are working, or former working professionals be it in auto-body, electronics. I hardly think the truck driving instructor or the flagging and safety instructor, who worked in industry, went to teaching school. The college has the right to make the hiring decision, they take various factors into account and they hire who they want. Now, all other things being even, they probably would take someone with that teaching certificate. On the other hand, if you have a working professional and someone else, only with the teaching certificate, they would hire the person with the professional background almost certainly. Colleges can do that. Grade and high schools can't. You guys are talking a moot point.

However, I could sit on the Nachi board all day, having this meaningless conversation. You do not know me, you have no clue whether I am a good teacher or an inept boob. I guess you would have to ask my, and our, past students. I think you would be very hard pressed to find anyone who thought the course was anything but excellent. But, of course, nobody needs to take my word for it.

Bottom line: If you need to take a class, then this is a class you can take. Like it, hate it, think it terribly unfair, costly, it is an option right now. And, unless other schools step up to the plate, it is a course that will help you meet the requirements. Weeks back people were complaining there were zero schools. Now there is one. You can wait for others to emerge but I have no clue when that might be. The amount of money any school can make on this, despite what you might think, and the hassle of putting it all together makes it not very appealing to most schools including the community colleges. If it was a real money maker I do not think that ITA/Kaplan would have bagged it here. We had a course in place we could modify. As far as I know, no other school in the state had anything close to their guidelines. There was another community college that had a course, but they would have to do huge re-working I think to get it to work. Maybe they will.

By the way, this is a "certificate" program. It is designed to train home inspectors and do only that. The technical school trains people in specific fields -- auto body, accounting, welding, nursing, dental assistants, carpentry, truck driving. In this case it is home inspection. I have no clue if they would let a student count the HI course toward any other course or not. Probably not. It is accredited but we have never had anyone take it for any reason other than to become an inspector. It is very specific as are all courses at BTC. My daughter is going there now and she is taking accounting. In that course, all courses she takes are related to that field.

[Steven L. Smith]

Steven,

Regarding inflation, if you figure 1000 bucks plus is books, I think inflation is not so bad if we go back 13 years. Also, most of those $1500 courses, like ITA, had way fewer hours than this course. They are no longer in this state, and they have been directing students toward us, hoping we can offer a makeup class since their training did not meet the current education requirements. Many of those courses were short compared to mandated hours.

[Steven L. Smith]

Steven,

If you have a good cheap source of Carson Dunlop books, then I wish you would sell them to us at a profit. Have you never heard of these books. It is not a text book. It is more than a dozen books in all topic areas. They are the best books I know of, so we use them. Numbers are part of the equation. We typically have four or five students, six to eight tops. As you can see, after the books and paying four instructors, there is not much left out of the four or five students. A time or two, when it was run, the school lost money. I know, because the teachers took percentage cuts. The math was simple...no profit.

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

One only need look at other brick and mortar schools to compare prices. When ITA was running actual schools, their 90 hour course was close to $3000 if paid in advance. It would still be 30 hours short of the requirement. Other schools, most of which only offer 80 or 90 hour classes are all over $2000.

Just try and find an actual classroom taught course. They are very few and far between. Almost everyone has gone to "distance" learning.

That price is not bad for the full course, let alone having it include the 40 hours of field training / ride-alongs that are also required. I was surprised to see that included in the price.

Try looking at the cost of other courses taught at the "voc tech" or private schools. Truck driving to get your CDL? $3500-$4500. Welding? Massage therapist? All are in the same price range.

You don't like the price? Convince someone to rent space, put together a curriculum, supply all the learning tools and equipment and pay the instructors. You won't see the price much lower.

Maybe some of those working in the industry that don't even have a business license in the state will finally have to start paying taxes too.

[Harold E. Miller]

Some folks obviously just don't understand that home inspecting is a "profession". To enter any profession you must have some form of training that prepares you to perform the tasks required. This training costs money and requires a sacrifice of time.

Also any business you start, and expect to be succesful at, will have expenses. If you think you can come to any profession with a ladder, a flashlight, business card and no experience and no education........I think you are smoking dope.

Licensing or not.......a good inspection education should have been part of your business plan, and expenses allocated in your budget. I really don't feel bad for newbies who thought they just could get by on reading a couple books, or something off the internet, and thought they could call themselves an inspector.

[Steven L. Smith]

Steven,

You are correct. If the folks who think this is so expensive would actually try to do the same thing, they would realize that there is not any overwhelming profit in these courses. Now, if they filled college lecture halls, that would be a different matter.

Harold,

What you say is true. Also, from the standpoint of practicality, anyone who might be put out of business by licensing should just grit their teeth and get the license. Do what they have to do! Most of us hate paying taxes too but some things are beyond your control.

[James H. Bushart]

Teaching a person who has never held a flashlight to become a competent and professionally licensed home inspector in less than five weeks....assuming that such a thing is even possible....is a skill by itself.

It requires the ability to analyze the need of the student and to be able to present materials at his level and to judge his ongoing ability to understand and retain the information. Teaching is a skill of its own....not something that everyone can do.

Having been...or being...a home inspector no more qualifies a person to teach the profession than having had the Swine Flu qualifies one to teach professionals on how to successfully treat it.

Licensing is a scam played on the public for more reasons than this and, by far, you didn't invent the scam.

[Steven L. Smith]

James,

That is why at BTC, we hire home inspectors who teach who are not only qualified but they are also good communicators. There is no field on earth where you cannot find someone teaching who should not be. That is why, at the college level, teaching certificates are NOT required. You hire the best people you can find, looking for a qualified professional not just someone who has a piece of paper. At BTC we have a good staff of instructors. They impart information well and students always give the class a rating in the high 90's out of a possible 100.

[Steven C. Meyer]

Steven Smith

It does seem that you are quite qualified to teach. Many teachers/professors are not full time, but do teach after meeting the basic qualifications to do so.

I will also, conceed to another of your points:

In my college years, the best professors I had were not only "book learned", but had actual experience in the real world applying that education. Book learning is great, but it is not until you get out into the "real world", do you realize there is "more to learn".

[Steven C. Meyer]

Originally Posted by hmiller

Some folks obviously just don't understand that home inspecting is a "profession". To enter any profession you must have some form of training that prepares you to perform the tasks required. This training costs money and requires a sacrifice of time.

Also any business you start, and expect to be succesful at, will have expenses. If you think you can come to any profession with a ladder, a flashlight, business card and no experience and no education........I think you are smoking dope.

Licensing or not.......a good inspection education should have been part of your business plan, and expenses allocated in your budget. I really don't feel bad for newbies who thought they just could get by on reading a couple books, or something off the internet, and thought they could call themselves an inspector.

THEREFORE, when you entered the HI business, you had hours and hours of schooling (education), and a ton of prior "experience"?? Assuming you have been in the business for some years, just where did you find/get this vast wealth of knowledge and experience? And you did all that without being "asked" AKA, "forced to"

And, with all your prior schooling/knowledege, guess there would be no reason for you to take this class??!! After all, you are already a "professional", why should the state question your "proven ability"

Dope? You are what you smoke, so go light up that quality bud, and have a good day. That is just way to "blue collar" for me, my choice of drugs is a fine scotch, on the rocks!

[Steven C. Meyer]

I have to agree with James. Mike Ohandley, et al, did do a great snow job as this bill was pushed throu, and it has turned into a zero protection of the consumer, and a one hundred per cent, protection of existing inspectors!
As some feared, the costs of entry will lock out many (competing) new inspectors, thus protecting the established inspector.

I look at all legislation with weary eye. The lsegslation is just the foundation, it's what's built on that foundation, by buracrats, and the judical system that becomes the problem. A prime example is the ADA, a noble idea, but has been hijacked to the point that everyone is considered disabled one way or the other.

The Washington legislation, merely set up the ground rules, and left the working parts up to UNELECTED, self appointed, agenda driven individuals, and there in, is the problem. I see nothing in this legislation, and the rules imposed, that provides any meaningful protection to the consumer, I do see meaningful protection for the current inspectors.

So, a little truth in advertising: This is a JOB protection legislation, the consumer is just along for window dressong.

[kpierce]

All I can say is it's a bunch of BS and if the design, like James implies, is to push the newbies out of the field, then it's probably going to work out beautifully because I'll probably just focus on my other, much more profitable business than paying for this sh!t + gas and lodging. Bravo!

Also, here's a question. Since creating a class is so difficult and unlikely to be implemented anywhere but BTC, what would've happened if Steve and others didn't take the initiative and make the necessary changes? The state would be left with no class.

[Steven L. Smith]

Kevin,

I would certainly not say there will not be other classes. It is hard to put a class together, but the law is written so anyone can do it with elbow grease. There just has to be a desire and, since the real estate market is down and there are fewer inspectors, the question is who will step up to the plate and do it -- maybe someone nobody every thought of. I do not know. It would be good to have more classes.

I do know, from having worked an existing program, that meeting all of the state fundamentals guidelines takes effort. Every single part of the class must be given to the state --every test, every power point, every text book. And, they actually go over every bit of it. I think I sent something in the neighborhood of 60 hours of power points and, based on the things they have asked me to tweak, I think they looked at every single thing...really.

So I do not want to be quoted as saying nobody else will do it. Maybe somebody will, we hope so. Many schools could, the question is whether or not they will. The door is open to any school, public or private, if they will do the necessary work.