International Association of Certified Home Inspectors
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| Legislation, Licensing & Legal Issues for Inspectors Use this forum to discuss current and proposed legislation on home inspector licensing, and other legal issues affecting home inspectors. Inspectors from all associations welcome. |
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#106
10/11/09, 10:21 PM
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Please Note:
wsiegel is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
"There was a lot of support for the NHIE but I doubt any inspector cares one way or another which exam is used. Some one made a proposal for a "regional" exam due to our location in the tropics and a hurricane zone...I don't like that idea."
Why don't you like a regional exam. We deal with things down here that are not dealt with in other parts of the country, and visa versa. 
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#107
10/11/09, 10:23 PM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Quote:
Should the state award grandfathering based on number of unqualfied inspections performed (right or wrong) and not on education, they'd be viewed as sleazy as ASHI for rewarding inspectors with "full" or "certified" membership status based on number of consumers harmed. Encouraging inspectors to go out and perform a certain number of unqualified, unsupervised inspections for poor, unsuspecting consumers is WRONG. It's wrong when diploma mill ASHI does it and it would be wrong if the state of Florida did it. The state of Florida won't... thank goodness. And you can take that to the bank. Nick Gromicko, Certified Master Inspector  Find a Home Inspector "Just as iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Proverbs 27:17
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#108
10/11/09, 10:44 PM
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Please Note:
wsiegel is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
How many NACHI inspectors have completed the list below? And where is the oversight for following the SOP and COE.
Requirements for membership (items 1 through 3 must be completed before applying for membership): You must have passed InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination (free) with a score of 80 or better. You must have completed InterNACHI's Ethics Obstacle Course (free). You must have taken InterNACHI's Standards of Practice Quiz (free). Then, join by... mailing, faxing, or submitting online a completed InterNACHI Application/Affidavit. At this point, you are an InterNACHI member, and logo usage is awarded, but... You must adhere to the Standards of Practice. You must abide by the Code of Ethics. You must continue learning by taking courses (24 hours per year) per our Continuing Education Policy. You must maintain your Online Member Continuing Education Log (free) per our Continuing Education Policy. Then, after you join and become a member... If you have never performed a home inspection for a fee, submit four inspections to InterNACHI's Report Review Committee (free) before performing your first fee-paid home inspection for a client. This requirement is only for new members who have never performed an inspection for a fee. Within the first 10 days after becoming a member... You must log in to InterNACHI's educational message board. You must apply for a membership photo I.D. (free). Within the first 30 days after becoming a member... You must complete InterNACHI's online Safe Practices course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Residential Standards of Practice course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. Within the first 45 days after becoming a member... You must complete InterNACHI's online Plumbing course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Electrical course (free), including all quizzes within, and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Roofing course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. Within the first 60 days after becoming a member... You must complete InterNACHI's online HVAC course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Structural course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Exterior Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. Within the first 90 days after becoming a member... You must complete InterNACHI's online Deck Inspections course (free), including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Moisture Intrusion Inspection course (free), including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam. Then, within the first year after becoming a member... You must re-take and pass InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination again (free) with a score of 80 or better. You must complete InterNACHI's online Green Building course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. Within the first two years after becoming a member... You must complete InterNACHI's online Wood-Destroying Organisms course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Mold Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. Within the first three years after becoming a member... You must complete InterNACHI's online Vermiculite Insulation mini-course (free), including all the quizzes within. You must complete InterNACHI's online Polybutylene Plumbing mini-course (free), including all the quizzes within. You must complete InterNACHI's online Water Heater TPR Valve Discharge Piping mini-course (free), including all quizzes within. You must complete InterNACHI's online Emergency Egress mini-course (free), including all quizzes within. You must complete InterNACHI's online Log Home course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must take at least eight hours of advanced (or beyond) Standards of Practice coursework (reasonable exceptions apply). You must complete InterNACHI's online Radon Measurement Service Provider course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must complete InterNACHI's online Commercial Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam. You must attend at least one InterNACHI chapter meeting, convention or educational seminar (reasonable exceptions apply).
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#109
10/11/09, 11:11 PM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Quote:
Nick please set the ego aside and work for the HOME INSPECTORS and stop bashing ASHI. I dislike ASHI and will never become one of their members, but your rants sound as if you are being childish. We look to you for guidance and direction and help and you have given that 10 fold and I thank you for it. But being a member of NACHI still does not mean you have completed ONE SINGLE HOME INSPECTION. You keep blowing this off. Throwing stones in a glass house does no one any good. I am a proud member of NACHI and want to make it better. But if you want I can name three people who have NEVER completed a full home inspection and they have been a member for over a year...Hell my brother passed the test and if he wasn't white trash and had the money to join he would have. I wouldn't trust him to inspect a bird house. Once again, my hat is off to you and you are the leader of an organization I enjoy being a member of and see the many benefits OUR organization has to offer. But once again all organizations have their flaws and NACHI is no different... As Dale Carnegie once stated...."Maybe He is Right". I know you have put your heart and soul into this and its a GREAT SUCCESS, but please provide HOME INSPECTORS support in the Florida Legislature. After this passes, go ahead and bash whomever you wish. But this is one items that HOME INSPECTORS need support. Stop, think and tread cautiously. I want our organization to remain professional and above the rest...
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#110
10/12/09, 12:22 AM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
You missed the point. My point was that hypothetically, if tomorrow morning InterNACHI decided to adopt ASHI's come-only-with-cash entrance requirements where you can join with nothing but a valid credit card, and InterNACHI dropped all its educational requirements... at that point, we would no longer be helping any consumers or inspectors... but we we wouldn't be harming them either!
Consumers and inspectors would be in no better or worse position with or without ASHI or InterNACHI. However, ASHI, encouraging its come-only-with-cash newbie associates to go out and perform a certain required number of unqualified inspections for poor, unsuspecting consumers as the only way to achieve "full" or "certified" membership status causes harm to both consumers and inspectors both. There are even reports on this message board of ASHI associates offering free inspections in an effort to acquire their required number of inspections. ASHI teasing their newbies with the reward of "certification" for harming consumers does just that... it harms consumers. Unconscionable! Unconscionable for grandfathering too. And this has nothing to do with ASHI bashing. It has to do with Florida home inspector licensing. In licensed states (like FL is about to be) where do you think InterNACHI members get their approved CE? (answer: right column of www.nachi.org/education.htm) Anyway, read the FL law slower (BTW: it's not a bill, it's an enacted law signed by the Governor). The legislative intent is clear. The path to licensing is through education. 120 hours to be exact. The word "experience" doesn't appear but once in the entire law. And "Number of home inspections" doesn't appear at all... too bad for you ASHI. Like InterNACHI (and unlike ASHI) the Florida Home Inspection Law says that EDUCATION is the correct path to a license... and I couldn't agree with the duly elected Florida legislators more. InterNACHI had it right all along and the Florida legislators confirmed it with this law. Should Florida grandfather 14-year olds who want a driver's license by allowing them to drive 250 miles, alone, with no education? Sure, after 250 miles the kids might figure a few things out, drive on the right side of the road, figure out where the parking brake is, figure out what a yield sign means.... but their abilities would have been acquired by risking harm to other drivers and pedestrians for the first 250 miles. Florida would be wrong to dangle a license in front of 14-year olds and tell them to go out and drive 250 miles first with no education. Florida got it right when they enacted a home inspection law that has education as the path to a license. Why is it that every time I call a spade a spade or explain why ASHI is harmful to consumers and our industry... you all call it "ASHI-bashing" ??? I call it "accuracy." Nick Gromicko, Certified Master Inspector Find a Home Inspector "Just as iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Proverbs 27:17 Last edited by gromicko; 10/12/09 at 2:38 AM..
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#111
10/12/09, 7:28 AM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Quote:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people were performing HI's long before your courses existed. Odds are that the sub-par inspectors were a relatively small segment of the population. Many inspectors engaged in a horrible practice before you came along...they educated themselves in other ways. David Sorge (USN Retired) FL License HI142 Infrared Certified Thermographer Inspect-It 1st of Northeast Florida Serving Jacksonville and surrounding communities 904-484-4847 dsorge@inspectit1st.com http://www.dsorgeinspects.com http://www.linkedin.com/profile?view...US&trk=tab_pro We see RED...InfraRED  When we see RED... You see $GREEN$ Ask us how? Last edited by dsorge; 10/12/09 at 7:37 AM..
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#112
10/12/09, 7:33 AM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Quote:
Moisture problems? There are plenty of anciliary courses addressing this including NACHI's that are quite good. I just don't think we're so different that we need to reinvent the wheel. The state likely won't due to funding limitations. David Sorge (USN Retired) FL License HI142 Infrared Certified Thermographer Inspect-It 1st of Northeast Florida Serving Jacksonville and surrounding communities 904-484-4847 dsorge@inspectit1st.com http://www.dsorgeinspects.com http://www.linkedin.com/profile?view...US&trk=tab_pro We see RED...InfraRED When we see RED... You see $GREEN$ Ask us how?
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#113
10/12/09, 8:00 AM
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Please Note:
wsiegel is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Nick,
You are missing the point completely. Let me see if I can clarify. You must have passed InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination (free) with a score of 80 or better. You must have completed InterNACHI's Ethics Obstacle Course (free). You must have taken InterNACHI's Standards of Practice Quiz (free). Your course can be taken online. Anyone who can turn on a computer and knows how to use google search can pass your test. At this point, you are an InterNACHI member, and logo usage is awarded, So now I send you a check and am a home inspector. If you have never performed a home inspection for a fee, submit four inspections to InterNACHI's Report Review Committee (free) before performing your first fee-paid home inspection for a client. This requirement is only for new members who have never performed an inspection for a fee. According to this, if a member has completed one fee paid inspection, they are good to go without submitting any report for review. Who verifies this. You must log in to InterNACHI's educational message board. These days no one even goes on the boards, or if they do they are not posting. Your average number of inspectors on the boards lately is around 40. It used to be in the hundreds with lots of guests. You must apply for a membership photo I.D. (free). Home many members really have one of these? You must re-take and pass InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination again (free) with a score of 80 or better. And you have documentation of this?. I am in my third year and have only taken the exam once for renewal. You must attend at least one InterNACHI chapter meeting, convention or educational seminar (reasonable exceptions apply). There have been a total of three meetings in South Florida in the past four years, only two (maybe three) since 2006. How can you attend a meeting if there is no chapter My point is this. Your membership application is no better than ASHI's (and I am not an ASHI member). You have a good web site, good free education, and some good benefits, but it ends there. Anyone can join by taking an online, non proctored test. The rest of your requirements go unchecked. If an inspector has completed one fee paid inspection he is turned loose on the community. How does any of this make NACHI better than any of the other organizations?
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#114
10/12/09, 8:05 AM
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Please Note:
wsiegel is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Quote:
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#115
10/12/09, 8:30 AM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
My inspection today has a basement.
http://www.psgconstruction.com/About/renewed_american_home.htm In all of the years I built or worked on houses in Florida we only did one house with a basement. Greg Bell Titusville, Fl 02111507 Serving Central Florida
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#116
10/12/09, 8:59 AM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Ok I see what Nick is saying, but once again I think he is blinded and WILL not see that he is no better than ASHI in requirements. I saw a thread a few above this one and I agree with it.
Now if he wants to break it down to SIMPLE terms lets I can use ONE word to throw ALL of his theory to rest. re⋅quire⋅ment /rɪˈkwaɪər  mənt/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-kwahyuhr-muhnt] Show IPA Use requirements in a Sentence See web results for requirements See images of requirements –noun 1.that which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory: One of the requirements of the job is accuracy. 2.an act or instance of requiring.3.a need or necessity: to meet the requirements of daily life. Origin: 1520–30; require + -ment Synonyms: 1. Requirement, requisite refer to that which is necessary. A requirement is some quality or performance demanded of a person in accordance with certain fixed regulations: requirements for admission to college. A requisite is not imposed from outside; it is a factor which is judged necessary according to the nature of things, or to the circumstances of the case: Efficiency is a requisite for success in business. Requisite may also refer to a concrete object judged necessary: the requisites for perfect grooming. 2. order, command, injunction, directive, demand, claim. You have NO requirements because you can join and be a member without doing almost ANY of these things. I think the test and money. I saw somewhere in the message board that someone turned in 5 reports. NEVER heard back, obtained any critique.... So if I can join year after year do not do ANY of the things you REQUIRE...then are they REQUIRED? I am a Certified Indoor Environmentalist through IAQA and the ACAC which is the American Council For Accredited Certification and renew I have to PROVE...meaning send them each and every class I took, meeting I went to to obtain the 40 credit hours they REQUIRE or I lose my certification. If I then lapse for 6 months and provide nothing, I would then have to start from the beginning. This is a REQUIREMENT. Once again, I love this organization and think Nick is an awesome guy who has done so much for our industry. My hats is off to him and all others who got us to this point. I am not bashing OUR organization, but if there were checks and balances it would seem much more legit...
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#117
10/12/09, 9:55 AM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
There is one item that I have not seen discussed and that is 2 yr. degrees. IE... Associate in science degree in "building construction" or "Construction Management" which require 67 hours of education for the degree. These should be allowed toward the 120 hour requirement.
Kenneth Townsend, CPI Gulf Coast Inspections Professional Inspections and Consulting Bradenton, Florida 941-779-4400 Serving the beautiful West coast of Florida "Guard Against the Impostures of Pretended Patriotism" George Washington, 1796
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#118
10/12/09, 12:37 PM
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Please Note:
Scott Patterson is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
The NHIE can still be used and If the State wants a state specific exam they could have it just as Washington State has done. By using the NHIE it would also allow those that pass to get a license in States that already require it. A good example would be Alabama that adjoins FL at the panhandle.
By having a state specific module for FL the state can then have questions that pertain just to FL. This is what Washington did and it worked out pretty well for them. The key to having a Regional or State only exam is the cost. I don't see the state wanting to cough up $300,000 to $500,000 to develop an exam when they can use the NHIE and a State specific module and it would not cost the state anything.
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#119
10/12/09, 1:35 PM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
Some of you are confusing "requirements" with "enforcement."
A driver is required to obey the speed limit in order to keep his/her driver's license. It is a requirement. Whether it is enforced to the point that everyone who speeds loses his license is another matter. You cannot join InterNACHI (technically impossible) without having completed some requirements (every exam is time-stamped) and promising to complete others in the future (every application for membership has an affidavit). Go ahead now and try to join by fax, mail, or online without the affidavit. You can't. It is technically impossible and has been for years. It is no different than a drivers license. To get a drivers license you pass an exam, just like InterNACHI has, and fulfill some requirements, just like InterNACHI has, and you promise to do other things, just like InterNACHI has you do. One of the things InterNACHI is working on is taking our time-stamped transcript system (that we use to supply licensed states with verification of continuing education fulfillment) and incorporate it into our renewal system. This would provide some additional enforcement. However, again, the point I was making was that Florida's home inspection law mimics InterNACHI in that they are both based on EDUCATION. The Florida law spells out the exact number of educational hours needed to get a license and the exact numbers of continuing educational hours needed to keep a license. "Number of inspections performed" does not appear at all in the Florida Law. ASHI needs to get over it. Nick Gromicko, Certified Master Inspector Find a Home Inspector "Just as iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Proverbs 27:17
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#120
10/12/09, 1:40 PM
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Re: Florida home inspector licensing update page.
It should be based more on number of inspections, rather than time in business. Even better all inspectors in business when the bill became law should be grandfathered IMO. The bill also needs an SOP and COE, we have some work to do. See you all tomorrow in Orlando.
Priority Home Inspections has teamed up with the Dish Network to give you a FREE Dish Network system. Log onto www.Free-Dish-For-You.com for all the details. Priority Home Inspections, Inc. 321-368-9921 www.BrevardHomeInspector.com www.AvoidAMoneyPit.com www.BrevardInsuranceSavings.com www.BrevardBuildersWarranty.com www.PrioritySignPosts.com Info@BrevardHomeInspector.com
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