Hey Dan Harris and Dom D'Agostino... you are correct and I fully agree with you.

[Nick Gromicko]

Hey Dan and Dom (sounds like a puppet show )... I fully agree with you. If you know of our members violating our Code of Ethics, let ESOP know.

Let me explain a little ancient history to you. I appointed Joe Farsetta as head of ethics because he is like a bull dog... strong and mean. Who better? He's perfect for the job and he's been doing it very well ever since. He wears no collar, no leash, and is underfed.

Ethics is everything to us at InterNACHI and Joe Farsetta and ESOP always do what they have to (as unpopular as it may be at times) to defend InterNACHI's honor. I'm with you on this one, and so is ESOP.

When you see something wrong, please speak up. I'll follow your lead and do similarly.

[Nick Gromicko]

I know I'm going to sound like a sexist with this one, but what the heck, we're all family...

Ethics is the spine of an association. If you want a straight spine you need strong men like Farsetta and Bushart, men who aren't going to get pushed around, helping keep things in line, and willing to wack a few heads if need be.

There are some women who can do such a job (Jeane Kirkpatrick comes to mind), but on average, it has been my experience, that a much smaller percentage of women are suited for such positions. Women are much better in positions that require diplomacy.

It's not that women aren't enforcers IMHO, it's that they aren't executioners (killers)... generally... that is the problem.

Anyway, my point here is that it is my personal belief that the ethical struggles suffered by that mini-association stem from it being managed by a for profit company owned by their own female Executive Director.

Feminine qualities are wonderful, but if you want an association with a straight spine, you need a little Bushart/Farsetta-type male energy in your ethics committee.

Just my opinion, I don't mean to offend anyone.

[Nick Gromicko]

I wasn't really referring to posting, I was referring to enforcement of our COE which is what Dom was talking about. It takes strength to enforce.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

I wasn't really referring to posting, I was referring to enforcement of our COE which is what Dom was talking about. It takes strength to enforce.

This thread kind of starts out in "Limbo"... can you reference the remarks from "Dan & Dom" that you are "answering"?

[klott]

Nick, all of that is fine and dandy, however, members of such a commtitee should be above reproach, before they can render true and honest justice to and for all. In other words, one needs to be ethical, if they are to rule on ethical matters. I think this is the biggest problem members have with the ESOP. Plus they need to have a firm set of standrds to go by, and members have the right to know what these standards are, in order to keep from crossing the line. JMHO

[dharris]

Originally Posted by klott

Nick, all of that is fine and dandy, however, members of such a commtitee should be above reproach, before they can render true and honest justice to and for all. In other words, one needs to be ethical, if they are to rule on ethical matters. I think this is the biggest problem members have with the ESOP. Plus they need to have a firm set of standrds to go by, and members have the right to know what these standards are, in order to keep from crossing the line. JMHO

Intersting reply, this is from a nahco member , guess all is not as rosie in nacho world as nick wants everybody to believe.

Me post or file a complaint.
Not... I am not one to rat on someone, just following posts of some members here is telling enough

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dharris

Me post or file a complaint.
Not... I am not one to rat on someone, just following posts of some members here is telling enough

Yup, all bark no bite.

[Nick Gromicko]

Frank, I jumped to this thread as http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthrea...t=26323&page=4 got way off topic. See page 4 of it.

Kenneth, you are sort of touching on my point.

What I was trying to explain to Dan and Dom (boy, the more I say that the more it sounds like a puppet show ) is that it is no big surprise to me (personal opinion here) that the female run mini-association is naturally going to be more diplomatic compared to InterNACHI. Frank was the U.S.'s youngest member of Special Forces for example. There is clear contrast between a totally, 100% female run association (the mini-association is managed by a for-profit management company owned by the assocaition's own female Executive Director) and InterNACHI, which has committees dominated by alpha males. Now don't get me wrong here... most everything I have going in the business world is run by women. The Boulder office staff of InterNACHI is 100% female. Lisa can outwork 10 men. I'm just putting forth my personal theory that the reason that other association fails so miserably when it comes to ethics is that it lacks the mean guard dogs we have here. Too much diiplomacy hinders ethics enforcement.

God put us all here to try to figure out what we each do best... and God expects us to then go do it. God put guard dogs on the earth too and the best guard dogs are male dogs that bark and bite.

[klott]

God put us all here to try to figure out what we each do best... and then do it. The best guard dog is one that barks and bites, and won't roll over for a dog biscuit. I understand your point completely, but I'm sure there are others who like Dan will spin it to death, and as ruthless as it might seem, the way that other incident was handled, it will no doubt, be a deterent to others, who will try to pet the dog, without getting bit, so to speak. Havng said this, just keep in mind, even guard dogs need to have dis Temper shots.

[Nick Gromicko]

I won't even consider it. A guard dog on a leash has only one job... and it ain't guarding. It's turning perfectly good dog food into dog *****. How would that help the association? It wouldn't.

Anyone who has come to InterNACHI looking to join a do-nothing, unethical, diplomatic association that offers nothing more than ugly logo usage has come to the wrong place.

[Dom D'Agostino]

Nick, now you're the one with the huge thread drift.

Keep it on topic, which is cleaning up your own COE violators.

Dom.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by dharris

Intersting reply, this is from a nahco member , guess all is not as rosie in nacho world as nick wants everybody to believe.

Me post or file a complaint.
Not... I am not one to rat on someone, just following posts of some members here is telling enough

This is NACHI where most can voice their opinion and thoughts ( Even Dan)

(" I am not one to rat on someone") and that in a nut shell is what is one of the major problems in the world today!
Example 55 People in a restaurant and two start shooting at each other .
Police arrive and no one saw any thing,
No witnesses.

I Guess we all can see what type of person Dan complain about every thing else but never stand up to help all.

Dan unfortunately you are a mugwump through and through.

...Cookie
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[Nick Gromicko]

Dom. I think you are keeping it on thread topic reminding all that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between an international association that may have members who are violating (knowingly or unknowingly) the association's very strict COE... and... a mini-association that permits ALL its members to act unethically and so has no violations to police.

[Dom D'Agostino]

Originally Posted by gromicko

... an international association that may have members who are violating (knowingly or unknowingly) the association's very strict COE...

Thanks again, Nick, for publicly acknowledging that iNachi ignores the fact that members violate the COE, and continue to do so with your full knowledge and support.

Since you know about it and have written about, shouldn't you correct it?

Your very strict COE is meaningless if it is not enforced regularly, with protocols and procedures; not intermittently, with whims and personal vendettas.

Dom.

[dharris]

Dan unfortunately you are a mugwump through and through.

Hi Cookie...What the heck is a mugwump?