Kansas HB 2315 Update

[briddle]

No offense to anyone here, but I hope it is not me that has to go to court to fight this. I have this problem with stupid sh_t, and have a bad habit of telling people what I really think. I would probably end up in jail. I can't believe that I could be responsible for something that a builder did or didn't do, and covered it up. Same with a contractor, homeowner, Realtor, ect.... That is just plain stupid. Did I mention that I think it is stupid?

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Guys -

Its already starting. In the past 2 weeks as you know, Luke Bell, KAR and KCRAR that I know of have sent newsletters, emails and held office meetings for Realtors all over the state saying basically - "Its taken us 9 years to get this pushed through, but we've got home inspectors regulated AND they can't limit their liability to anything under $10,000 per inspection AND you can start making them do this 7/01/08 OR as soon as the Bill is recorded in the book".

This allows Realtors, sellers, buyers, Builders, etc to try and drag the home inspector into paying for almost any perceived wrong (valid or otherwise) OR things that other parties have done or not done. AND this nightmare is already starting. This week, I've had calls from 4 other inspectors saying things like:

Dan - (1) I was right in the middle of an inspection and the dishwasher started leaking - the next day the listing agent called me and said her seller said its never done that before, so when I turned it on I must have done something to make it leak, and under this new Bill its my responsibility to pay for fixing the sellers leaky dishwasher; (2) Another inspector called and said when he went to put the garage door up, it went up half way and derailed. The seller called him later that day and told him that her realtor told her there was a new law and home inspectors had some sort of $10,000 warranty to pay for things like this, etc; (3) A third inspector said someone he did an inspection for about 11 months ago called and said this past week hes got a leak in his roof. The homeowner had a roofer out and it seems the builder (NOW out of business) cheated - the builder cut corners and used felt paper ONLY around the edges of the roof. So to fix the roof, they will have to tear the whole roof off AND put felt paper down AND reroof the house. Obviously a home inspector can't see under the roof shingles, so why is the buyer calling the inspector - the builder is bankrupt AND vanished - the inspector is left behind AND the buyers realtor told them about the new Bill in Kansas that makes home inspectors liable for up to $10,000 per inspection (for their whopping big $275-$325 fee).

Its already apparent that some agents, buyers, sellers, etc will see this as a "$10,000 warranty, repair allowance, guaranty, etc".

Yes - its already starting thanks to the fine efforts of the KAR and certain members of the KAREI group, combined with naive legislators listening to the lies we heard in the committee meetings. We may become a financial cushion for agents, sellers, builders or a buyer looking for a $$$ fix (regardless of whose fault). We'll be paying $1,000 - $1,500 attorney retainers just to write defense letters for $300 inspections on MANY of the defective conditions in the sellers house or other parties problems.

The attorney's that were consulted have said several things like: a) they think its illegal for the state to try and restrict 1 groups ability to legally contract with their customers - especially since the Kansas Appellate Court has ruled several times over the past 10 years that is is legal for ANY business to negotiate their liability (in time OR money) with their customers AND no other business or profession has been prevented from the contracting process - just inspectors; b) they think the difference in time for city / rural inspectors is discrimatory; c) in Kansas since engineering laws EXCLUDE 1&2 family houses AND the engineers were excluded from HB-2315 they are not under anyones jurisdiction NOR are they forced to NOT limit their liability, get insurance, etc AND can continue to do whatever they want with NO juristiction from the engineering board OR the home inspection board - more discrimination OR possibly a state mandated RESTRAINT of TRADE. These are just a sample of what the attorneys came up with after reviewing HB-2315, as well as possibly tying the KAR into a Microsoft type affect on another profession. They felt they can get an injunction on the Bill and put it into hearing before a Dictrict Court for rulings.

They also felt this might be of interest to the Justice Department or someone like the FBI, from the KAR's aspect of interference or manipulation.

They think this would make a hell of a great media story - either locally or nationally for some enterprising investigative reporters. Kind of reminds one of the Alamo - 200 to 250 home inspectors fighting off 20,000 to 25,000 real estate agents in Kansas for the right to control their own profession. ESPECIALLY when those same real estate agents or KAR have been instrumental in fighting any type of state mandated building codes, code inspections, licensing of builders, OR mandatory consumer protection laws like radon testing or landlord safety checks on housing.

However the attorneys want a $17,000 retainer to get started. I'm told several groups are looking to see if any law firms would like to take this, and see who they can sue for $$$$$ IF the inspectors agree to give the attorneys 80% of whatever they can get from anybody OR any entity for ANY reason.

The attorney's also suggest raising rates SIGNIFICANTLY in Kansas (like $100-$150 per inspection OR MORE) to help compensate for the extra liability. AND they suggest starting to hammer everything thats not 100% correct AND referring almost everything thats not 100% correct to "licensed contractors" for further review and analysis, AND to NOT inspect NOR even look at ANYTHING thats not required by the National Inspector Association you belong to OR NOT required by the state statutes (i.e. things like appliances, fireplace flues, furnace heat exchangers, etc).

As we all know, ALL national home inspector associations, exclude many things like appliances, fireplace flues, heat exchangers, etc. If they're outside your National Standards, they're outside the Kansas Home Inspector Law. So great - lets address them that way. At the current time most of us check most of these components for our clients anyway as a courtesy - however - under the new Kansas Law with $10,000 of liability, here's what my insurance company and my company attorney have both suggested that we start doing to address these Kansas liability issues:

1) Mr Inspector, how did the appliances work - they look really old. I don't know Mrs Buyer, we don't operate these anymore for Kansas homebuyers because of the $10,000 liability issue. If you were buying a house in Missouri we'd still do them as a courtesy, but since its in Kansas ...........

2) Well Mr Inspector, is my fireplace flue clean - does it look OK to you. Gosh, Mr Buyer we don't check these in Kansas anymore - the $10,000 liability thing that the Kansas Realtors pushed, you know. If you decide to buy a house in Missouri, we'll be happy to look at them for you.

3) Mr & Mrs homebuyer, there is a water stain on the ceiling under the 2nd floor bathroom. I've checked it with my moisture meter and its dry at this time, BUT there could be water damage OR a toxic mold inside the ceiling cavity where we can't see AND we recommend removing the drywall prior to closing to examine the hidden areas AND we recommend a FULL mold test prior to closing. If we were in Missouri, we'd simply tell you there were old water stains that are dry at this time - we can't see inside the walls - and monitor this in the future. Why do it the other way in Kansas? Its real simple - the Kansas $10,000 liability thing.

I think the Kansas home buyers are gonna start paying a lot more for a lot less AND getting a lot of referrals to get other inspections done.

Can't do it any other way. The way the Kansas Realtors have influenced the Bill has seen to that. Whats very funny is as someone with a degree in Real Estate when I read the local Realtors own contracts, they've got so many "limits of liability" for themselves its a downright joke.

Other than that, nothing new out here in rural Kansas.

[Nick Gromicko]

Dan, the solution to ASHI-pushed crappy legislation that continues to harm inspectors, is to find all those who support ASHI with their membership dues, and simply kill them.

I simply can't understand why soon after ASHI-pushed crappy legislation passes, all these ASHI guys start complaining about how many inspectors the law is licensing, how their markets are deteriorating, how home inspection schools are popping up on every corner pumping out licensed inspectors by the hundreds, and how their liability has gone up.

Sleep with dogs, you get fleas.

Dan, why do you continue to financially support an organization that harms our industry? Isn't the fact that ASHI has no entrance requirements (text book "diploma mill") enough? Isn't the "everyone-passes" NHIE enough? Isn't creating crappy legislation enough? Isn't tripling the number of competitors through licensing enough? Isn't pushing for (and getting) legislation that raises your liability to cover Kansas agents enough?

What does it take for guys like you to stop killing us all with your poor choice in association financial support?

Do no evil.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Make sure at every chance you have fun with this bill. Always point back at the bill and at the Realtor at the same time.

[klott]

Nick, please go back and edit post #18 again, while we know you are just kidding,(Hopefully) it looks real bad, and I'm sure it will be used against us.

[James H. Bushart]

The desire to "stay in the loop" for information purposes can often send out mixed signals.

I know exactly where Nick is coming from on this and he is not wrong. We made the same decision earlier this year when we decided that NACHI had no place paying dues and assisting in the financial support of used house salesmen association led Missouri Housing Alliance. While we were no longer able to be "informed" of the opposition's intentions after leaving it, our representatives were not allowed to speak against a licensing bill anyway.

Our participation and membership not only sent the false signal to others that we actually supported this circle jerk, but our dues helped them push forward an agenda that was contrary to our interests.

It's hard to take a stand on a political issue like this...and continue to run a business. Damned hard.

In Kansas this year, I watched the same home inspectors who were vigorously spending time, money and effort to fight the KAR and their attempt to push forward their destructive licensing bill....purchase advertising in the KAR newsletters that they used to push the bill through the legislature.

The association that provides training and support to Jeff Barnes and others like him....is being financed by dual ASHI/NACHI members who are being put out of business by Barnes, ASHI and their agenda.

It does not make sense....but...

What about the ASHI members who also oppose the actions of their association in Kansas and Missouri? Why do they continue to support this treachorous and unethical association with their dollars?

I think the answer is found in the word "fear" and the lack of acknowledging the fact that one cannot expect to make it to second base while keeping their foot on first base. They bought into the "branding" campaign as much as the used house salesmen and a few weak minded legislators.

Business as usual has resulted in success for the KAR and the ASHI led KAREI. Business as usual is what they expect and are counting on as they establish their control in Kansas and move their fight to Missouri. It is time to change "business as usual" and acknowledge the reality of what is happening.

I can understand why Nick is asking the question he is asking.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

I've got 2 past National ASHI presidents I know and several longtime past board of director members, that do not support many of ASHI's newer policies and have spend a great deal of time fighting them. When I asked them why they still belong, they said to get info they wouldn't otherwise get AND to be able to work from the inside to help fight this.

We have the same situation in NACHI. I believe it was Paul Sabados in Olathe, KS that told me in the past when he has done a zip code or other search for FEATURED INSPECTORS on the NACHI web site in his zip code, he will often pull up several hard core ASHI inspectors that will disk NACHI into the dirt every chance they get - long before his own name comes up.

They disk NACHI, put all their support into ASHI but still pay dues and belong to NACHI - why?? Web exposure is better at NACHI.

Why do we take their money - same argument as mentioned above.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Dan's post kinda reminds of the stories my girlfriend tells me about people who come to the Rape and Abuse Crisis Center, where she works as a volunteer. No matter how bad they are beat up, most of the abused victims wind up going back to the abuser because they think they can change them. They spent so much time and energy on the relationship and at one time they felt secure in the relationship, so they just do not want to give it up. Sometimes they wind up dead by the hands of the abuser.
Sad, very sad.