Lawrence Kansas Stands Up To Code Changes

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

"People like Larson " are not against building codes Jim.

They are concerned that we are far too willing to let government mandate everything under the sun for our our own good and removing personal responsibilty from our decision making.

Nobody wants to admit but it does come down to cost vs. benefit.

If you go for "maximum safe", what are you giving up?

The point you are missing, Mike...is that the choice still remains with the consumer.

It is the builder who, in the presence of enforced building codes, must meet a minimum basic standard when creating a dwelling. Name a profession that (other than builders and contractors in the states of Missouri and Kansas) has no minimum standards to meet when manufacturing a product.

The buyer can, as I did, purchase a home built in 1897 before the majority of these standards even existed.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

The point you are missing, Mike...is that the choice still remains with the consumer.

I disagree. For example: many states are now are mandating the installation of smoke and CO detectors in all homes.

What will stop them from mandating the installation of sprinklers systems in all used housing?

As I said, I am not against building codes but still think the free market should determine what enhanced safety systems should be installed in a home.

Those who desire to impose maximum safety on all of us will never stop.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

I disagree. For example: many states are now are mandating the installation of smoke and CO detectors in all homes.

What will stop them from mandating the installation of sprinklers systems in all used housing?

As I said, I am not against building codes but still think the free market should determine what enhanced safety systems should be installed in a home.

Those who desire to impose maximum safety on all of us will never stop.

Perhaps it would be wiser to let your government representatives know of your desires than to tell us.

There were many Kansans on the message board fighting HI legislation, but few of them wanted to risk their relationships with the realtors pushing the bill and stayed away from meetings with legislators. That is how crazy bills become law.

I personally made the motion to the City Council in Moline Acres to have CO monitors made mandatory in the city. More than half of their dwellings were rental units supplied with natural gas and a lot of weekend-handyman modifications. Renters needed the protection and, in an open hearing on the subject, not one single person objected.

[Michael Larson]

CO and smoke detectors are prudent and cost effective means of protection.

Sprinkler systems are much more about protecting structures than lives. I think it makes more sense for insurers to offer lower premiums for sprinklered buildings.

That would be a market based solution.

[Gary Farnsworth]

A couple of years ago, a bill was introduced to mandate radon testing of any home before it was sold. Kansas Association of Realtors shut it down. A proposal to mandate detectors in every home was talked about. Gone. They will also will shut down the sprinkler issue. These people have the resources and political clout to do anything they want. They have all of the lawmakers here in Kansas in their pockets. This is why they want, and got, home inspector licensing, to control us, to make us write soft reports, to get the veterans out and replace them with newbies, and to move the liability on to us. This is a government conspiricy at is worst, and should be stopped in Kansas. Lawmakers work for the people; not their corporate interests. When it comes election time, these lawmakers will be voted out. As it is Nationally, they all better change their tune, or we will change it for them.

[Patrick Carter]

Originally Posted by gfarnsworth

A couple of years ago, a bill was introduced to mandate radon testing of any home before it was sold. Kansas Association of Realtors shut it down. A proposal to mandate detectors in every home was talked about. Gone. They will also will shut down the sprinkler issue. These people have the resources and political clout to do anything they want. They have all of the lawmakers here in Kansas in their pockets. This is why they want, and got, home inspector licensing, to control us, to make us write soft reports, to get the veterans out and replace them with newbies, and to move the liability on to us.

And this is the reason why we need to eliminate the lobby groups in our state as well as our federal governments. With all the hard work that certain HI's did to try and stop the HI bill in Kansas was doomed from the get go because of the Lobby effort from KAR that Barnes and KAREI had sold their souls to..........

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Wanta have a REAL eye opener. For ANYBODY that belongs to ANGIES LIST or can get this months magazine of theirs - Take a good look.

They did a SPECIAL on LICENSING of CONTRACTORS.

NEAR the back of the magazine there is a USA map showing states with AND without BOTH state, local or other licensing. There are 3 STATES that have ALMOST nothing at state, local or OTHERWISE.

GUESS which 2 MIDWEST states are part of the 3 states WITH zip-squat?

ALSO they used several examples of BAD contractors ripping off people (1 here in Kansas City area), AND they included 1 example of a BAD home inspector (look at his business card to see which Assoc. he was with).

After reading this JUMP back on this Board and give us FEEDBACK.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by pcarter1

With all the hard work that certain HI's did to try and stop the HI bill in Kansas was doomed from the get go because of the Lobby effort from KAR that Barnes and KAREI had sold their souls to..........

I respectfully disagree, Patrick.

Too little was done too late by too few.

The Kansas law is recognized by many, nationally, as the worst law for consumers and inspectors in the United States. Even after the Governor signed it in to law....it was so bad and so poorly written that the Atty Gen had to send it back and, after another round in the Kansas Congress, it still came back flawed.

If there was ever a piece of legislative garbage destined for the trash heap, it was the Kansas Bill.

It didn't happen because too many Kansas inspectors feared pissing off their realtor pals while the KAR was pissing on them.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Jim B -

You're part right / there were a WHOLE lot of inspectors that did NOTHING but complain on web sites BUT could never take time off AND loose an inspection to go to a hearing before the legislators.

BUT - Pat Carter is VERY right, quite a few of US gave up a WHOLE lot of time writing to legislators; calling legislators and COMMITTEE members OR visiting legislators OR COMMITTEE members. Like Pat said - AS you and others KNOW, the REALTORS put a BUTT load of $$$$$ and VOTES into making this go through.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Jim B -

You're part right / there were a WHOLE lot of inspectors that did NOTHING but complain on web sites BUT could never take time off AND loose an inspection to go to a hearing before the legislators.

BUT - Pat Carter is VERY right, quite a few of US gave up a WHOLE lot of time writing to legislators; calling legislators and COMMITTEE members OR visiting legislators OR COMMITTEE members. Like Pat said - AS you and others KNOW, the REALTORS put a BUTT load of $$$$$ and VOTES into making this go through.

Indeed.

Those few who stepped out of their comfort zones and took a stand did a heck of a job. The silence and absence of those who objected on the message boards but hid under their beds when it counted drowned them out.

Now that many of them are out of business and/or struggling to put a tank of gas in the car...it's hard to feel sorry for them. I'm sure that many of them would do differently, knowing what they know today, if they had a second chance.

[Gary Farnsworth]

I have been doing inspections for 8 years, approaching 7 figures in income, and had to recently sell my truck, because I can no longer afford the payment. My business is so bad, that I am looking for work elsewhere. I am only one of two CMI's in the state of Kansas, and since recieving the honor, my business fell flat. Agents do not want anything to do with any inspector that has experience; we will simply kill their deal. Agents will do anything currently to get a sale.

Lawmakers and the Attorney General of Kansas, Steve Six, should be investigating this whole situation. Understand, that even the board does not know which laws to go by. HB 2260 from 2008 AND HB 2315 from 2009 are both still in play, because SB 329 from 2009 has yet to be voted on. Anyone who pays and joins this so called "KHIRB" will bite their own foot when the laws change, pass, or even fall by the wayside. I encourage anyone in Kansas to NOT SIGN ANYTHING that this board puts out. It may relinquish your rights.

Agents and contractors are all currently performing inspection "checks" for free. Just listen to local commericals. Several roofing companies perform free roof inspections. Several foundation companies will do foundation "checks" for nothing. AND ALL ARE NOT LICENSED, REGISTERED, OR CERTIFIED TO PERFORM ANY WORK ON ANY HOME. They go in, do the checks for the repairs, needed or not, and the sellers and buyers foot the bill. I wonder how many fees, kick-backs, and referral fees are changing hands in RE offices in KC and in Kansas at this very moment.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Jim B -
BUT - Pat Carter is VERY right, quite a few of US gave up a WHOLE lot of time writing to legislators; calling legislators and COMMITTEE members OR visiting legislators OR COMMITTEE members. Like Pat said - AS you and others KNOW, the REALTORS put a BUTT load of $$$$$ and VOTES into making this go through.

You are missing something:
How bad of a licensing law would you have gotten if no letters, calls, or visits to legislators would have taken place by some HIs?
In all do respect, I think you Kansas boys just gave up too soon.

I think Gary has the right idea. If the law is severely flawed like it is then it cannot be enforced.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jbushart

A state fire marshall that I met with, recently, told me how a representative of the Missouri Association of Builders recently spoke at one of their meetings...condemning the new IRC requirement for residential fire sprinkler systems that save the lives of dwellers and firefighters.

He began to speak as to how the increased cost would adversely affect the ability of some people to afford new homes.

He didn't get far. According to the fire marshall, he was "booed and hissed" out of the room.

TOTALLY AGREE, Jim.

Now, the weather report from hell. This just in, morning temp will be 23 degrees below zero.

Still, I totally agree with Jim. Hold the builder's feet to the fire over their work. Make them accountable.

[Gary Farnsworth]

Kansas lawmakers have given complete control to the KHIRB. They have the full right to set any rules, regulations, or educational requirements that they want. Sure, there are some limitations due to the Laws (which ones are yet to be determined), however as I may need to register, or license with this "board", I would be working for them, not the state, since the laws give the board the power to set all of these rules and regs. The board members are mostly ASHI. See HB 2260 and HB 2315. I hope they get it straigtened out by January 1, 2010.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gfarnsworth

Kansas lawmakers have given complete control to the KHIRB. They have the full right to set any rules, regulations, or educational requirements that they want. Sure, there are some limitations due to the Laws (which ones are yet to be determined), however as I may need to register, or license with this "board", I would be working for them, not the state, since the laws give the board the power to set all of these rules and regs. The board members are mostly ASHI.

I have a right to work here in Kansas, and refuse to abide by rules set by a large national orginzation, who has three members on the board. I would be working for ASHI rules, and not state rules. That, my friends here in Kansas, is unconstitutional, by Kansas right to work rules.

I disagree. I don't think that the law gives the board much power at all and all of the power that it has assumed on its own has yet to be tested. If they catch me doing an inspection without my Kansas license and try to make an issue of it.....the tests will take place.