Lawrence Kansas Stands Up To Code Changes

[James E. Braun, CMI]

I agree with Bushart.

[Gary L. Farnsworth]

Sec. 4 KSA 2008 Sup. 58-4504 is hereby amended to read as follows: 58-4504. The board will have the following duties and powers............(g) "adapt all rules and regulations which are necessary to carry out the provisions of this act".

From HB 2260, 2009. An Attorney's income for years.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gfarnsworth

Sec. 4 KSA 2008 Sup. 58-4504 is hereby amended to read as follows: 58-4504. The board will have the following duties and powers............(g) "adapt all rules and regulations which are necessary to carry out the provisions of this act".

From HB 2260, 2009. An Attorney's income for years.

"adapt all rules and regulations which are necessary to carry out the provisions of this act".

...and nothing more. Meaning...they cannot adapt or carry out any rules that are not empowered by some provision of the act.

[Gary L. Farnsworth]

"to make all necessary investigations into the qualifications of OR allegations of misconduct against an applicant AND registrant. In connection with ANY investigation by the board OR it's duly authorized agents OR employees shall at all reasonable times have access to AND the right to examine and copy any document, report, record, or other physical evidence of ANY registered home inspector being investigated OR any document, report, record, or any other evidence maintained by and in the possession of any registered home inspector...."

Would you like these people come knockin' at your door and demand and copy any document, report, record, etc. in your home?

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gfarnsworth

"to make all necessary investigations into the qualifications of OR allegations of misconduct against an applicant AND registrant. In connection with ANY investigation by the board OR it's duly authorized agents OR employees shall at all reasonable times have access to AND the right to examine and copy any document, report, record, or other physical evidence of ANY registered home inspector being investigated OR any document, report, record, or any other evidence maintained by and in the possession of any registered home inspector...."

Would you like these people come knockin' at your door and demand and copy any document, report, record, etc. in your home?

That is a big part of it.

The fifth amendment rights of an individual do not disappear because of the ASHI-led Kansas board.

Let them go to a court and explain to a judge why I am compelled to give them copies of reports that they want to use to issue me a fine. Let's see how fast they go flying out of the building and onto the street.

This is just a small part of how this law deserves to be ignored.

It is not only the right thing to do....but, IMO, it is the only ethical option that any ethical home inspector has.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

It seems to me I remember something in the rules or regs that if memory seves me correctly / Gives the Board power to pull your license or ??? if you FAILEd to to something they dmanded.

Now this is just speculation BUT if the CIA came knocking at your door and wanted records of past CLIENTS - you would politely tell them to get a Court Order AND then shut the door on them till they produced.

BUT what if the KHIRB had the power to yank your license WHILE you're waiting to challenge this in Court. WHO is paying your house, car or insurance payments while this is going on????

EVEN if you're right YOU could be out of BUSINESS or starving!!

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dbowers

It seems to me I remember something in the rules or regs that if memory seves me correctly / Gives the Board power to pull your license or ??? if you FAILEd to to something they dmanded.

Now this is just speculation BUT if the CIA came knocking at your door and wanted records of past CLIENTS - you would politely tell them to get a Court Order AND then shut the door on them till they produced.

BUT what if the KHIRB had the power to yank your license WHILE you're waiting to challenge this in Court. WHO is paying your house, car or insurance payments while this is going on????

EVEN if you're right YOU could be out of BUSINESS or starving!!

Exactly.

This body should be universally ignored, IMO. They have no authority over anyone who is not registered. If I am ever questioned about not having a license, I will simply explain how I refused to forfeit my rights under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution in order to register.

You can, if you wish, voluntarily forfeit your rights. I choose not to.

[Michael Greenwalt]

I would like to address Michael Larsons points as I see them. First, good points but there are considerations.
#1, let free market decide. Normally this is a valid approach. Free market after all is the driving force to keeping costs in line with the market. In this case however it isn't as effective as you would think. The major reason for this is the fact that most people do not buy new homes. The majority of Americans purchase pre-owned homes. It is a no brainer to understand just how much more difficult a retro-fit is in terms of cost. A homebuyer is most often presented with a home that will have several repairs needed and the "sprinkler" system will be seen as a luxary not a necessity. It is for this reason that the market will not serve homebuyers when it comes to adoption and enforcement of good building practices.
#2, you made a point that smoke alarms are there to save a life, and sprinklers are there to save property. This may have been true 20 years ago but is no longer true. The truth is that due to manufacturing technique changes over the years for just about everything that goes into a home, a residential fire will now reach flashover in approximately 3 minutes after the initiation of a fire. Compare this to 17 minutes for that same fire to reach flashover 20 years ago. Now, more than ever, sprinkler systems are installed to protect lives....and property. When the 3 minute clock starts counting, subtract time for smoke to reach alarm, time to realize what is happening, subtract time to realize just how serious it is, subtract time to find fire and try to put it out, subtract time to find you children and get them out of the house (insert decision time to determine which child gets attended to first), subtract time to see through smoke and find exit...well I think you can see where I am heading; three minutes is not a lot of time.

Sprinklers save lives; period. If it takes the adoption of a code to make this happen, this is a good thing. We make no qualms when it comes to protecting commercial property, why do we balk on protecting our families?

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

For anybody that doesn't know him, Mike is the current President of KARCI (Kansas Association of Residential & Commercial Inspectors) and is out of Junction City, Kansas.

He has been a very stout fighter against the unneeded and unwanted HI Bill that KAR pushed on us. He also ran for the Kansas Legislature 2 yrs ago.

[Michael Larson]

Mr. Greenwault, thank you for your reply and you have provided some interesting information.

There really is no end to proposals that would save lives in the home.

We could mandate only fireproof materials be used in home construction.

We could mandate fire separation walls throughout and automatic door closers for each door.

We could mandate fire safety training for all occupants.

We could mandate that all furnishings are built with non flammable materials.

We could mandate that no sources of ignition be present in a home.......................

But

I would rather the insurance market provide incentives to the public through steep discounts of home owners insurance for various protection systems included in a home than for another government regulation that adds significantly to the cost of owning and mantaining a home.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by Michael Greenwalt

#1, let free market decide. Normally this is a valid approach. Free market after all is the driving force to keeping costs in line with the market. In this case however it isn't as effective as you would think. The major reason for this is the fact that most people do not buy new homes. The majority of Americans purchase pre-owned homes. It is a no brainer to understand just how much more difficult a retro-fit is in terms of cost. A homebuyer is most often presented with a home that will have several repairs needed and the "sprinkler" system will be seen as a luxary not a necessity. It is for this reason that the market will not serve homebuyers when it comes to adoption and enforcement of good building practices.

See post #9.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

See post #9.

From post #9

Moral of the story.....buyers will buy a sprinkler protected home over one without when the option is available.

Yep, the free market at work. Thanks for the reminder

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Michael Larson & Others -

Free Market, Slave Market, Whatever .........

The real point of this is our local and state RE Groups.

They fight tooth and nail against ANYTHING that might mean safer houses. The ploy is always along the same lines.

"Mr / Mrs Legislators - This proposal that some naive and out-of-touch consumer groups have brought before you to enact MANDANTORY licensing of builders or contractors; MANDANTORY building codes and code inspections;MANDANTORY seller disclosures in a RE transaction rather than voluntary disclosures; MANDANTORY requirements that landlords of rental property have annual safety inspections of their rental properties; MANDANTORY testing for radon in RE transactions; MANDANTORY disclosure in RE Contracts throughout the state that high levels of radon gas can be hazardous to your health and lead to cancer; or ALMOST anything along this line will RAISE the cost of a house by $500 to $1,500 AND cheat over 1,000 state residents out of the AMERICAN DREAM of HOME OWNERSHIP. Therefore we urge you to VOTE NO to ....................."

Thats what Bushie, Braum, Greenwalt and myself are pointing out.

ALMOST anything that makes building or selling a house more stringent or costly to them is AGRESSIVELY fought by the RE Community out here, WHILE at the same time spending MUCH $$$$$$$$$$ and time getting Home Inspectors licensed to PROTECT the poor consumer is VITAL for National Security; To Protect the Environment; For The Children; For World Peace; etc, etc.


Gag / Barf / Chuckle ...........

[Michael Larson]

When it comes to fighting against licensing of HIs, I'm on your side and I understand your point.

Fight on.