legislation pros and cons

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by chorne

Hi guys,

NH does not have licensing for contractors.
code enforcment is there to protect the comsumer
and on that note I was a builder for 25 years before
entering inspecting and I don't remember ever hearing
about a job gone bad to extreme.

I have seen many posts that relate HI's to doctors
nurses, electricians, plumbers, on and on. what is
the definition of a home inspection? does that compare
to wiring a house or practicing medicine or drilling teeth?
I think the whole business has gone out of control, mainly
because of our litigious society.
If the inspector is not competent than I would bet $ that
they will not be in business for very long.
Maybe we should just require 15 plus years in the building
business, 200 hours of HI course study, 5,000,000 E&O and
40 hours of cont. ed per year and maybe that will protect
all consumers, even the really dumb ones!
Here is a good question, How many potential clients ask any
questions at all before booking an inspection with you guys?
maybe the general public should be more responsible.
I say let the legal system do its job, and forget licensing.
it doesn't work in our business, period.
CJ

You make some fine points. It boils down to personal responsibility and let the buyer beware.
If an association wanted to use the requirments you listed as the bar for membership that would be fine.

[James H. Bushart]

You make some good points, Carla. No matter where you put the line, incompetency can be present. You cannot legislate intelligence. Caveat emptor continues to weed out the incompetent service provider.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by chorne

Hi guys,

NH does not have licensing for contractors.
code enforcment is there to protect the comsumer
and on that note I was a builder for 25 years before
entering inspecting and I don't remember ever hearing
about a job gone bad to extreme.

I have seen many posts that relate HI's to doctors
nurses, electricians, plumbers, on and on. what is
the definition of a home inspection? does that compare
to wiring a house or practicing medicine or drilling teeth?
I think the whole business has gone out of control, mainly
because of our litigious society.
If the inspector is not competent than I would bet $ that
they will not be in business for very long.
Maybe we should just require 15 plus years in the building
business, 200 hours of HI course study, 5,000,000 E&O and
40 hours of cont. ed per year and maybe that will protect
all consumers, even the really dumb ones!
Here is a good question, How many potential clients ask any
questions at all before booking an inspection with you guys?
maybe the general public should be more responsible.
I say let the legal system do its job, and forget licensing.
it doesn't work in our business, period.
CJ

I would rather be in a Profession than a Trade Carla.

Nothing wrong with being in the trades, but customers generaly pay tradespeople LE$$ than the pay Professionals. Perception.

Carla do you have any evidence of this "Out of control" situation you mention? Or just blowing off steam?

My clients have never asked if I am NACHI Certified.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by jbushart

You make some good points, Carla. No matter where you put the line, incompetency can be present. You cannot legislate intelligence. Caveat emptor continues to weed out the incompetent service provider.

James, just present some shred of evidence to make 1 of your points and spare us the talk radio rhetoric, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Diddy-way-diddy right back at ya

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

James, just present some shred of evidence to make 1 of your points and spare us the talk radio rhetoric, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Diddy-way-diddy right back at ya

What are you talking about? Proof of what?

Proof that licensing does not stop incompetents from being home inspectors? Watch your own local news broadcasts, Brian. Things are so bad and so "cut throat" in your own state that licensed (aka "professional") home inspectors are helping local media set up sting operations to catch each other missing loose shower stalls.

Where in the hell is your proof that licensing home inspectors in any state has resolved a single issue? Name the problem, the state that addressed it in its licensing law, and the result since licensing was put into effect.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

History has shown time and time again the consumer wants protection from unregulated business.

If that protection comes in the form of licenses, regulations, insurance, etc , that is what the consumer wants.

Speaking of evidence.
I'm sure we would like to see what you have that supports your contention.

[Carla Horne]

Brian,
I am not in the "trades", I perform visual exams for people

I did not ask if potential clients ask if one is NACHI certified,
are you asked any questions relative to your background or
experience prior to booking an inspection?

James, I think that you and I are getting along!?
it must be that holiday spirit

CJ

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Speaking of evidence.
I'm sure we would like to see what you have that supports your contention.

Posted earlier Michael.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Posted earlier Michael.

Yes it was. Did I miss your post that included the evidence?
If so, I apologize. Can you point me to it?

[tdutt]

[quote=chorne]Hi guys,

NH does not have licensing for contractors.
code enforcment is there to protect the comsumer
and on that note I was a builder for 25 years before
entering inspecting and I don't remember ever hearing
about a job gone bad to extreme.

If you've been contracting for 25 years and haven't heard of many problems, that's amazing. Maybe all the "black sheep" of the families back east came out west!

I think the whole business has gone out of control, mainly
because of our litigious society.

Agreed.

If the inspector is not competent than I would bet $ that
they will not be in business for very long.

One can only hope.

Maybe we should just require 15 plus years in the building
business, 200 hours of HI course study, 5,000,000 E&O and
40 hours of cont. ed per year and maybe that will protect
all consumers, even the really dumb ones!

I'm down with everything but the E&O (it encourages the litigation you are referring to above)

Here is a good question, How many potential clients ask any
questions at all before booking an inspection with you guys?
maybe the general public should be more responsible.

I don't think most would even know the right questions to ask.

I say let the legal system do its job, and forget licensing.

California is a perfect example of why this is not a good idea. Mediation, Carla, is the way to go. As I wrote in an earlier post, what's the difference,between the state court and the state contractors board with free mediation services? It's going to be a function of the state one way or another, let's go the cheap way....mediation with the contractors board.

it doesn't work in our business, period.

It does in Oregon, and I know I'm getting a little repetitious here, but it's a thing of beauty to live in a state with very few h.i. lawsuits and only a handful of complaints about h.i.'s with the agency designed to handle the complaints. Like a guy once told me, "A man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an arguement!"

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

No such thing in modern western societies James. It makes a nice sound bite though.

In modern western societies, people elect representatives to enact laws to protect the people form unscrupulous organizations and or individuals claiming to be Free marketeers".

That is just how it is.

Now there will always be a segment of the population that thinks that Government regulation is BAD, and I would agree that too much regulation is not a good thing. But using history as a guide, Industry self regulation is not in the best interest of the general population, self regulation goes against Industry's profit motive.

Hmmm why spend money on mine safety when we just got a new canary???????

What do you mean I have to supply my workers a place to use the toilet,
Can't they just crap in the green scallions?

What's all the fuss about lead in drinking water????

That's odd, but isn't the Cuyahoga river on fire?

What do you mean I can't sweep crap into the sausage machine?

This is a start Michael.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by tdutt

it's a thing of beauty to live in a state with very few h.i. lawsuits and only a handful of complaints about h.i.'s

Yes, it is. And we don't have to have licensing in order to accomplish it. In fact, according to the BBB in Missouri, florists have more complaints filed against them than home inspectors.

I suppose we should legislate petunias, next.

[lcapaul]

I suppose we should legislate petunias, next.

Actually they probably are already as is any untreated plant or organic material imported into the U.S., probably not a lot of petunias improted but there are lots of other plants that are, just like the unprocessed logs coming from Siberia.

[Doug Edwards]

Often we hear people wanting HI to be a thought of as a "profession". By the layman's definition if you make money doing a job than it is a profession. I believe the courts have already made the determination and established that in order for it to be a "profession" there must be a degree earned and issued. That is why lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc. are called professions. I can already hear the come backs about professional athletes, professional fishmen. I am only stating what the courts recognized as a professional. We can all wish in the one hand and you know what in the other and guess which one will fill up first. Issuing a license will not magically make one a professional, at least not in the eyes of the courts. Something to think about. A licensed issued to someone who passes a 90 hour course and an entry level test will hardly make one a "professional". Trying to legislate credibility is ludicrous. It must the our "drive thru society" that makes people think this way.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

This is a start Michael.

I've been away for a bit. had to go vote against the latest local school referendum.The local school board has decided to reduce class size and voila, we now "need" a new 12.5 mil. elementary school. And what evidence is offered. None very convincing but it sure feels good.(to them) They just keep throwing money away like there is an endless supply.

Thank you Brian.

Justin Sinclair was a socialist. I find that interesting.
And Coca cola supported the Pure Food Act of 1906 hoping to gain a business advantage. Hmmmmm that sounds familiar.

As to the burning river you noted:

"Much of the Cuyahoga story, however, is mythology, a fable with
powerful symbolic force.14 The river did burn in 1969 – as it and
other rivers had burned many times before – and today the Cuyahoga
and many U.S. rivers are far less polluted. But so much else of what
we “know” about the 1969 fire simply is not so. The conventional
narratives, of a river abandoned by its local community, of water
pollution at its zenith, of conventional legal doctrines impotent in the
face of environmental harms, and of a beneficent federal government
rushing in to save the day, is misleading in many respects."

Read it all here - http://lawwww.cwru.edu/faculty/documents/cuyahoga.pdf

Facts can be such stubborn things.

Do you have any information that indicates a public ground swell for HI regulation?