legislation pros and cons

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Just a thought. Over the past 40 years I've carried dozens of types of license's having to do with construction, inspection, environmental issues, etc. in many states that I've lived or worked in. In basically none of them, did I fear the day to day political pull or influence of other trades or professions trying to change the rules we work under like with what I see going on in the home inspection industry across the nation.

In Kansas, Real Estate Agents are only required to take a 30 hour class and pass a simple test to get licensed. No E&O insurance requirements, etc.

We constantly hear horror stories about people buying one one the BIGGEST and MOST EXPENSIVE purchases of their life getting suckered into the "Money Pit" by the slightly under-educated or devious agent. Do you see the home inspection industry or all the other professions or the public rising up in protest and trying to get them some MANDATORY serious training OR some real BALL BREAKING penalties. Home about the home builders, contractors, etc. Not likely - why should we stand idly by why the agents, builders, attorneys, etc try to shove a 2x up our $ss.

We're way down on the totem pole of responsibility in a home transfer.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Just a thought. Over the past 40 years I've carried dozens of types of license's having to do with construction, inspection, environmental issues, etc. in many states that I've lived or worked in. In basically none of them, did I fear the day to day political pull or influence of other trades or professions trying to change the rules we work under like with what I see going on in the home inspection industry across the nation.

In Kansas, Real Estate Agents are only required to take a 30 hour class and pass a simple test to get licensed. No E&O insurance requirements, etc.

We constantly hear horror stories about people buying one one the BIGGEST and MOST EXPENSIVE purchases of their life getting suckered into the "Money Pit" by the slightly under-educated or devious agent. Do you see the home inspection industry or all the other professions or the public rising up in protest and trying to get them some MANDATORY serious training OR some real BALL BREAKING penalties. Home about the home builders, contractors, etc. Not likely - why should we stand idly by why the agents, builders, attorneys, etc try to shove a 2x up our $ss.

We're way down on the totem pole of responsibility in a home transfer.

Dan,
While playing around on the Web I read an article about a Missouri County which has just elected a couple of ne State Reps or Senators, one is a Realtor and the other a Contractor, both were talking about licensing Home Inspectors.

My point has been that the Realtors, Lawyers, Politcians, etc. are trying to Regulate Home Inspectors, media hype like happened here in Wahshington gives them the push to get it done, in most State the Realtors are a powerful lobby in State Government, why not write our own legislation instead of having them do it for us. When it looks like its coming, have a plan

[Robert J. OConnor]

More than about 2/3 of the states have some form of licensing/registration enacted or in the works. It's probably only a matter of time before the remaining states also have some form of licensing/registration.

History has shown that when only some inspectors and associations simply oppose any legislation, those in government just enact whatever they have as a proposal from a minority in favor or licensing ... which tends to have what is in my opinion very self serving restrictive/tough provisions. Legislators generally don't know any better.

As an example look at the fiasco in NJ, where many just opposed any legislation. They ended up with IMO unreasonably restrictive licensing provisions proposed by a minority in the industry. Agents had trouble even finding HI's for inspections, and just about forget finding independent inspectors willing to do the 250 supervised inspections. What a mess ...

Then look at NY for another example. Initially it was proposed that to get an HI license you would need to have 250 directly supervised inspections from a currently licensed HI (in addition to the usual things like fees and a test). Instead of just blindly opposing any legislation, many in NACHI went on the offensive, and proposed more reasonable provisions. In the end they agreed on what in my opinion is reasonable legislation ... with 100 supervised inspections by a licensed HI/PE/RA or 140 hours of training from an approved school as the basic provision.

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

JMO & 2-nickels ...

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Lewis -

The rural Missouri County was earlier last year. The guys wanted to get elected, the realtors & contractors wanted special favors for their support.

Robert & All else: Once you start on the licensing road with home inspection, its just the 1st of a long slide downhill.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Robert & All else: Once you start on the licensing road with home inspection, its just the 1st of a long slide downhill.

That hasn't been the case in NY, and I really don't think it will be.

One other important thing to point out about the NY Licensing law which I think they did right is that they made the Home Inspection Council only "advisory". Things like an SOP, CE requirements, insurance, and other things are up to the NYSDOS only in "consultation" with the Home Inspection Council. They have already shot down a council proposal to increase the required CE above the recommended 20 hours up to almost 40 hours, and have only required GL insurance as opposed to many that advocate/mandate E&O insurance (but I am opposed to mandating any insurance).

I feel sorry for HI's in states where a council is given the unchecked authority to just make up certain provisions.

JMO & 2-nickels ...

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Lewis -

The rural Missouri County was earlier last year. The guys wanted to get elected, the realtors & contractors wanted special favors for their support.

Robert & All else: Once you start on the licensing road with home inspection, its just the 1st of a long slide downhill.

Robert & All else: Once you start on the licensing road with home inspection, its just the 1st of a long slide downhill.

Sure it is, the next thing you know they'll start tapping all our phones, searching our homes without warrants, arresting people for having anti war sayings on their t-Shirts, and arresting people without charge, legal representation or trial, they might even start giving Billions of our Tax Dollars to the governments religious supporters, you're right regulating Home Inspectors is a slippery slope.

[Michael Larson]

Sure Lewis
Let's just keep adding to the government power over our pocket books and our business.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Sure Lewis
Let's just keep adding to the government power over our pocket books and our business.

Michael, You're usually pretty sharp, so maybe you can answer a question I've asked before, How can people who are so much against "Adding" to the government's power when it comes to their "Pocket Books", support the "Adding" of the Government's Power when it comes to taking away their Freedoms that "were" guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution? I'm sure you have been protesting the ever increasing seizure of Power by the Bush Administration as you have been about protecting your pocket book.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

Michael, You're usually pretty sharp, so maybe you can answer a question I've asked before, How can people who are so much against "Adding" to the government's power when it comes to their "Pocket Books", support the "Adding" of the Government's Power when it comes to taking away their Freedoms that "were" guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution? I'm sure you have been protesting the ever increasing seizure of Power by the Bush Administration as you have been about protecting your pocket book.

Thanks for the compliment - I think.

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring too with regard to the Bush administrations actions with respect to the war on terror so please enlighten me.

I would ask you to review some history and see if similar actions to the ones you object too have been taken before.

I have no problem with any method used to protect us from the terrorist's who would have us dead or in subjection to them.

[James H. Bushart]

This debate has nothing to do with political party or administrations...it is the choice of who should decide how you run your business. You...or your competitors who make up the "hi boards"? Who should decide whether or not you need to be insured...you, or the real estate agents and trial lawyers in your state? Who should decide what inspector to hire....the state or your client?

Licensing solves nothing.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Thanks for the compliment - I think.

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring too with regard to the Bush administrations actions with respect to the war on terror so please enlighten me.

I would ask you to review some history and see if similar actions to the ones you object too have been taken before.

I have no problem with any method used to protect us from the terrorist's who would have us dead or in subjection to them.

I would ask you to review some history and see if similar actions to the ones you object too have been taken before.

Germany in the Early 30's comes to mind.

"People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and attack the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." Reichmarshall Hermann Goering

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

Germany in the Early 30's comes to mind.

If that is the extent of your historical knowledge and you wish to make a less than subtle even hint at the term Nazi, I have nothing else to say except it's your delusion.

To everyone else I apologize for the thread drift. This should remain on the topic of legislating HIs

[Carla Horne]

good posts Robert

CJ

[Robert J. OConnor]

P.S. New York also had what I think were reasonable provisions for grandfathering current inspectors (in addition to application fees, etc). IMO the grandfathering provisions in any legislation is a critical thing for those currently doing inspections. In NY the options included:

1. 100 fee paid inspections withing the prior 2 years and passed a recognized test (note that NACHI's online exam was accepted as an equivalent!)

2. 250 fee paid inspections and 3 years of experience (no test requirement).

3. Education and/or experience equivalent the the above.

It's standard to have a grace period before licensing becomes effective, so qualifying under Option #1 was pretty reasonable for newer inspectors (even doing $1 inspections for everybody you could think of, even though they didn't need it). And if you had a decent amount of inspections (but less than 100) as a newer inspector, with some initial training (but less than or not meeting requirements for new applicants), inspectors could submit under Option #3 ... generally also included passing a recognized test.

Those provisions are extremely important for newer inspector that have recently started up in the field so that it helps avoid putting them out of business. Not a good thing... .

JMO & 2-nickels ...

[Nick Gromicko]

From a consumer's perspective: E&O insurance companies will tell you that 9 out of 10 complaints about home inspections are about home inspections that were performed perfectly. Out of the remaining 10% of the complaints only about 5% (1/2 of 1% of all complaints) are because the inspector was incompetent.

In summary:

There are very few complaints out there relative to the millions of inspections we do.

Of those, there are even fewer ligitimate complaints.

Of those, there are even fewer ligitimate complaints due to inspector incompetency.

What there is, is a few valid complaints due to what I call inspector on-site laziness. Something a state exam can't predict or prevent.