Licensing - Love it/Hate it

[John McKenna]

We all love the SoP but not everyone likes it enforced.
If all inspectors would govern themselves to at least
the minimum, there would be no need for an outside
system to enforce it.

The law made nothing perfect, but is a teacher until that
which is mature has come forth. The less law one has within,
the more law he needs from without.

John Adams 1798

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

We all love the SoP but not everyone likes it enforced.
If all inspectors would govern themselves to at least
the minimum, there would be no need for an outside
system to enforce it.

Just because they follow the SOP does not mean they make the correct calls on SOP items!! What happens when the homebuyer demands redress/compensation and the HI refuses.....who's going to force the compensation if deserved.........an HI association..........with 6-7 HI associations now, people still have to get to the lawyers' offices or the courts. The client (and ourselves) need cheaper ways to settle disputes!

The law made nothing perfect, but is a teacher until that
which is mature has come forth. The less law one has within,

the more law he needs from without.

John Adams 1798

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. Not that many around any more.......MONEY RULES!!!!

It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

SO who will govern us.......ourselves? Methinks it's foxes guarding foxes with the clients being chickens. It's like the home warranty corporations in the Canadian provinces......the boards are way overloaded with builders.....pity the poor new home purchasers that has problems!!!! Check out this website ( http://www.canadiansforproperlybuilthomes.com/ ).......we don't want one like this emerging against the HI industry. You know how fast it can grow.......just look at NACHI......growth mainly by the net.

[rwand1]

Its not about the SOP its about home inspectors overseeing themselves. We are home inspectors not administrators. Licencing removes self governance from those who have and will abuse the system because their buddy is an executive on the BOD or BOExaminers, or other committee. Without any form of outside oversite, the system is open to abuse. You have to look no further than in Ontario where we have a self regulating voluntary membership which is rife with derelection and breach of the bylaws.

I have seen first hand what self regulation is capable of doing to others.

Insecure inspectors love licencing? Thats a blanket statement considering what has gone on and is going on in some so called self regulating home inspection associations.

[sstowe]

And just what does licensing supposedly give you. People will sue because some people do incompetent work whether licensed or not. Some people sue because they see it as a way of making a buck.

I am against almost all licensing and all for voluntary certifications. Licensing does not prove the worth or capability of anyone. In GA, almost all trades are licensed and shoddy work continues.

The buyer will only be protected when the buyer takes their own self interest into their own hands and does a little bit of leg work to find out who is good, no matter what the profession. There are incompetent licensed lawyers, plumbers, electricians, etc - and remember, today someone will see the worst doctor for theie appointment.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

SO who will govern us.......ourselves? Methinks it's foxes guarding foxes with the clients being chickens. It's like the home warranty corporations in the Canadian provinces......the boards are way overloaded with builders.....pity the poor new home purchasers that has problems!!!! Check out this website ( http://www.canadiansforproperlybuilthomes.com/ ).......we don't want one like this emerging against the HI industry. You know how fast it can grow.......just look at NACHI......growth mainly by the net.

Brian
Do you think NACHI is a good thing or a bad thing .
............(".just look at NACHI......growth mainly by the net")...........
Yes it is mainly governed by the members them selves .
It gives help to all others who are willing to participate both members and non members .
Having seen how Home inspectors in Central Canada are treated by the associations and the help needed is so expensive
I think the best think to happen to the Inspection industry is NACHI .
So I repeat do you think NACHI is a good thing or a bad thing .

If bad what do you think needs to be done for the inspection industry.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by sstowe

And just what does licensing supposedly give you. People will sue because some people do incompetent work whether licensed or not. Some people sue because they see it as a way of making a buck.

I am against almost all licensing and all for voluntary certifications. Licensing does not prove the worth or capability of anyone. In GA, almost all trades are licensed and shoddy work continues.

The buyer will only be protected when the buyer takes their own self interest into their own hands and does a little bit of leg work to find out who is good, no matter what the profession. There are incompetent licensed lawyers, plumbers, electricians, etc - and remember, today someone will see the worst doctor for theie appointment.

But with someone with power working in the consumer interest such as (1) a government licensing agency, (2) one association given power by gov't or (2)one association recognized by gov't and private stakeholders such as the insurance industry, the real estate industry and others, (see below), there will be a way to remove the bad operators from the marketplace; now we really have no method except the marketplace and it does not seem to be working as bad operators seem to have means to survive to strike again. (Note: I had a call last night from our CAPHI chapter president looking for the address of a maverick HI so that papers could be served to go to court; I have had this call before from others as I'm the second longest in the HI industry here and get these types of calls regularly [the longest serving HI is not in any association])

For example: In Canada, there is one countrywide private org, WETT, that trains and certifies those working in the wood heat industry. It is alomost 20 years old now and has had its growing pains. It is supported by the insurance industry, gov't (energy dept's and Fire Marshalls) and other private stakeholders (equipment manufacturers, vendors). It is not recognized by law anywhere. Appointed by the regional chapters' elected executives (Ah! the democratic process),there is a national BOD that determines all policies, training needs, etc. In the past, it has pulled the certificates of members for not attending to business ( no CE taken, unresolved complaints, etc) and these ex-members have suffered severe financial loss with some finding other work. If you don't want gov't intervention, get to this format which will be nationally recognized by all involved!!

This will mean (1) no orgs, regional chapters run by an individual, (2) regular elections, (3) more volunteerism, (4) supervised exams (5) mandatory CE with exams. This is what WETT is about, but it's working with no gov't control or licensing!!

[rwand1]

A good example of mismanagement is OAHI. It only answers to itself and gives and stifles the true information. I took them to task about their membership list. They argued that the Registry of members is their website. That is just not true as it does not list Students, Applicants, Retired members. Yet Friends of OAHI are listed in the Registry and on the website. When Aubrey Leblanc was queried he denied there was a problem! Can you trust an COO who given his background (Tarion) should know how the bylaws and the Corporations Act are to function?

Brian, when WETT pulled peoples certificates did it give them a hearing or was there any appeal process?

[John Cahill]

Both scenarios are problematic. Regulation or none.

The Realtors will affect it even if they are not on the Board. The Realtors control legislation and that controls the Board. Their PAC money is powerful and inspectors are too small to resist.

I favor regulation of education and testing. I do not favor regulation of Standards, Ethics or the report form. Let NACHI and each individual professional handle that.

I do not favor a state agency interpretting your job in event of a complaint and then being exposed to the double jeopardy of the civil side. I've seen the worst of that and I would just as soon go the court route with E&O. Instead a double barrel shotgun pointed at you its a mere single barrel (10 gauge however).

Regulation = regulate = Castor oil = a bad taste

[rwand1]

John

I agree licencing should not regulate necessarily the SOP/COE/report formats, but must endeavour to ensure home inspectors overseeing themselves is on the up and up. For many of in Ontario its been anything but for close to 20 years. The industry is so fragmented and torn apart the public has no ability to be assured of anything, and as a result more are potentially harmed by an industry that has no regulation other than that it imposes on itself, most often for self serving reasons.

[Mathew Hawley]

Licensing solves nothing. There will always be bad inspectors....with or without licensing.

We can regulate our own industry.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

I have lots of licenses for lots of things or services I perform, and have not feared the licensure act from any of them. For example: once I took a 3 day course, took a 50 question test (the states test - not another groups), filled out a 1 page application, sent in my $75 fee - I got licensed as a septic inspector AND other than 6 hrs of CE every 2 years we've never had anyone OR anyother group pestering us OR trying to change OUR rules OR play with OUR lives.


No one trying to convince the state legislators we need to all use the same form to examine septic systems; all have mandatory E&O insurance; all use a SUMMARY PAGE or tell us what can go on the page; ..............


Its well past time we quit turning around and raising our skirts every time someone (most frequently a used house commissioned sales person group) mentions licensing.
I have not seen it do anything valuable for home inspectors or really the public. In my own area, I've seen the pro-licensing inspectors seem to fall under several well defined headings:


(1) older inspectors that see their market share slipping away and think licensing will stem the flow of new guys (fence me in & fence you out / you & I know different);


(2) the weak inspectors that think that licensing will validate their inexperience and give them credibility (I'm a licensed HI, so now the agent, builder or contractor won't be able to challenge me and tell my clients I'm dumb and don't know what I'm talking about);


(3) the brand new inspectors that hope licensing will give them instant credibility and level the playing field against the older more experienced inspectors;


(4) the cartel that has their own special interest agenda (someone that is on a power trip - wants to be on the HI commission and get rid of the dogs in our business - often they are the very ones the other inspectors consider the dogs); someone trying to sell something to HI's like insurance, training, or ancillary services that you might be able to mandate into legislation of HI's; and even some members of the various inspection groups - if a HI is not one of OUR group they're not fit to spit on the sidewalk).


Then there is the Non-Inspector cartel with their special agenda's.


(A) The trial attorneys - make E&O mandatory and put things in a law that prevent the HI's from limiting their exposure. This makes it easier to sue them.


(B) The Realestators - They think it helps shift liability off themselves in case anything goes sour - they used a HI the state deemed worthy. AND licensing HI's can give them inroads into having some subtle control over what we say, what we do, OR other parts of OUR business that they don't have without licensing (its hard to control mustangs on the open range - but if we can get them inside a corral its much easier to manipulate them).


Just personal observations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mathew Hawley]

Dan, well said.

[rwand1]

and what does self regulation solve?

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by rwand1

and what does self regulation solve?

It's not required to "solve" anything Raymond.
Government regulation purports to have the goal of raising the bar and protecting the consumer but is most often is used by interested parties to consolidate power and limit competition.

[pcarter-old-04]

Originally Posted by dbowers

(4) the cartel that has their own special interest agenda (someone that is on a power trip - wants to be on the HI commission and get rid of the dogs in our business - often they are the very ones the other inspectors consider the dogs); someone trying to sell something to HI's like insurance, training, or ancillary services that you might be able to mandate into legislation of HI's; and even some members of the various inspection groups - if a HI is not one of OUR group they're not fit to spit on the sidewalk).

Very good post and this statement quoted in your post I would think should be dedicated to "Molly" ..................................