New Texas Rule: Forms

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by mboyett

Russell, first of all I'd like to sincerely thank you, John and the rest of the committee members for all of the hard work you guys put into the proposed SOP revision. It was obviously a huge undertaking. That said, please don't take any of the following as anything other than just trying to fully understand the big picture. One, the committee was well aware of the need for a commentary almost from day one of the re-write of the SOP. The committee clearly knew that document or a good start on that document was needed to sway several of the committee members to support the proposed SOP and to also take to TREC along with the proposed SOP. It was almost a year ago, right here on the NACHI board, that some even volunteered to begin drafting that commentary document. I'm sure politics played a part in nothing occurring along those lines. Second, the concern that the proposed SOP removed all 'safety' related items was also well known before taking the proposed SOP to TREC. I'm of the opinion that if the committee had seen clear to re-insert a couple of those safety items, i.e. GFCI, that the GC concern would have not been as strong. Why did the GC even become concerned in the first place? Wait, I think I know the answer to that one.

I ain't touching that question, but wonder if you really know the answer. It gets sickeningly 'Peyton Place'.

The commentary as a concept came from enforcement periodically asking us for website FAQ information. BUT as soon as the GC insisted that any commentary be adopted BY RULE, it was dead. That would never work. Read the preamble of any code commentary. For example, the preface of IRC says in bold print:

"The Commentary is advisory only"

You really want 20,000 words of new rules? You really believe a commentary by a biannual committee should be updated through 6 months of commission review and public posting? That is what adoption by rule means.

And BTW, notice TREC has not asked a single FAQ question since I pointed out that the answers were de facto a working commentary which was not adopted by rule. It's been two years now.

It is truly dead, but we didn't kill it.

The concerns of the GC had nothing to do with safety, she was coached into saying that. It is a killer political shibboleth though. Heck, it apparently worked on you:

- WHERE is the "safety" in the current SoP that was allegedly removed???
- GFCI was always included in the proposed standard.

Start a new thread and I'll happily shred any safety SoP argument you can advance without breaking a sweat. It's not like we didn't think about this a LOT...

Russell

[Michael R. Boyett]

First of all, just to be clear, I am on your side you know. I'm not throwing stones at you guys, just playing devil's advocate some.

I ain't touching that question, but wonder if you really know the answer. It gets sickeningly 'Peyton Place'.

Yes, like I said, I'm pretty sure someone put the negative bug in the GC's ear about not supporting the proposed SOP. I'm also pretty sure I know who that was.

You really want 20,000 words of new rules? You really believe a commentary by a biannual committee should be updated through 6 months of commission review and public posting? That is what adoption by rule means.

Absolutely not, I would not want that! I understand the process.

The concerns of the GC had nothing to do with safety, she was coached into saying that. It is a killer political shibboleth though. Heck, it apparently worked on you:

- WHERE is the "safety" in the current SOP that was allegedly removed???
- GFCI was always included in the proposed standard.

Why do you say that? One of several issues raised at the TREC meeting by the commissioners when the proposed SOP was presented was the belief (real or mistaken) that the proposed SOP eliminated all safety related items. Nothing was presented at that meeting to clarify or rectify that issue. Maybe that wasn't the time or place to do that. Oh wait, yes it was.

Start a new thread and I'll happily shred any safety SoP argument you can advance without breaking a sweat. It's not like we didn't think about this a LOT...

That's not the point. The point is that the committee knew of the most significant issues against the proposed SOP yet seemed ill prepared to address them when the time came to do that.

I know the committee spent untold hours working the SOP revisions and that you thought about it a LOT. From the outside looking in, it appeared the proposed SOP revision was strongly supported by 2 committee members, somewhat supported by 5 members and opposed by 2 members. The two or maybe more opposing members and the two or three interested public audience members were effective in derailing the proposal. Now, if like you say, GC was adamant that a commentary be adopted by rule then that, in and of itself, would have squashed the SOP proposal since a commentary has not even been started.

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by mboyett

One of several issues raised at the TREC meeting by the commissioners when the proposed SOP was presented was the belief (real or mistaken) that the proposed SOP eliminated all safety related items. Nothing was presented at that meeting to clarify or rectify that issue. Maybe that wasn't the time or place to do that. Oh wait, yes it was.

Well, I remember Cahill standing up and saying "Baloney", that hazard identification was removed in 2000 by the same people objecting now and referring to our presentation at the prior meeting. Apparently I was the only one listening by then.

Originally Posted by mboyett

The point is that the committee knew of the most significant issues against the proposed SOP yet seemed ill prepared to address them when the time came to do that.

They were addressed pretty carefully at the midsummer commission meeting and in e-mail to commissioners. We did a 30 minute powerpoint presentation that addressed every issue in this thread head-on. Plus we had prepared a web page flash presentation on the subject. Jokl, Leal, Jordan and Chairman Walton all promised us it would pass. It was sweetness and light.

A month later, when it came time for final posting they wouldn't look us in the eye. There was no deliberation at that meeting. Commission support had disappeared faster than a bottle of Ripple under the interstate. GC and Jokl wrote the motion and Burleson read it. Poof it was over.

Interestingly, the one commissioner who had been toughest on us (Flores) voted against the motion.

The commission is really very knowledgeable about HI. One grilled me because we had a limitation that inspection does not include code. I simply showed her that our existing SoP said exactly the same thing. She frowned and asked "well what about those holes through the roof?" I have no idea what she was talking about.

Maybe 2 minutes before the last vote, the chairman asked, "Who is TAREI?" Yep, these are the people who oversee more than 50 pages of detailed regulations determining your fate.

Talk to any old-timer in the national groups - Texas is the negative example they learn from. TAR owns us and one of the prominent players in this whole thing is the one who sold us out. It's so hard to make a decent living in Texas HI, nobody has enough time to care, much less do anything about it.

Originally Posted by mboyett

I know the committee spent untold hours working the SOP revisions and that you thought about it a LOT. From the outside looking in, it appeared the proposed SOP revision was strongly supported by 2 committee members, somewhat supported by 5 members and opposed by 2 members.

Actually there were 5 in strong support, 2 on the fence and 2 hold-outs. The hold-outs were motivated by personal considerations. One personally hated our chairman and the other is a protege of you-know-who. Eventually those two went to war with each other and TAREI went looking for a new president-elect. After that she called and apologized.

Originally Posted by mboyett

The two or maybe more opposing members and the two or three interested public audience members were effective in derailing the proposal.

It was two ex-members. TWO. One who will lord over us all and one who has the GC's ear. Their legacy is a deal with the devil and has hurt a LOT of inspectors. But inspectors are sheep and sheep don't pick their shepherds.

Actually, there was no commission deliberation on the new appointments and one of them is disliked by everybody but the GC. So that means the GC is actually herding this flock. That should scare the hell out of everybody.

Originally Posted by mboyett

Now, if like you say, GC was adamant that a commentary be adopted by rule then that, in and of itself, would have squashed the SOP proposal since a commentary has not even been started.

She did and it was. The intent of a commentary was to have a living record which dealt with difficult interpretive issues as they arose. Other states do that, but I have no idea how it could be composed in advance.

I admire your civic-minded observation. Keep watching - they will never deliver any of the things we were criticized for not having. Regulatory politics is easy for people who are willing to assert outrageous things. You can say anything in front of the commission - NOBODY actually checks facts. We just did lots of work, told the truth and got pummeled for it.

In these pony-league politics it is obviously much easier to obstruct and delay than to improve or innovate. We couldn't rally supporters to every commission meeting, but the opposition got to choose when to strike at their convenience. 'Tis the way of the world.

At least now I am kind of an expert on national SoP's after our review work. There are THIRTY in current use. Cahill and I collected them all and I have annotated the major ones. Presented at a national conference last month and have an article coming out next month. I can make most inspectors swallow their gum.

Russell

[Michael R. Boyett]

They were addressed pretty carefully at the midsummer commission meeting. We did a 30 minute powerpoint presentation that addressed every issue in this thread head-on. Jokl, Leal, Jordan and Chairman Walton all promised us it would pass. It was sweetness and light.

Aha! There's the piece of the puzzle that I wasn't aware of as I didn't attend that mid-summer TREC meeting. That makes me feel very differently about how the final outcome came about. I see now that the committee had indeed addressed the issues surrounding the proposal. It certainly makes more sense now as to why so little was done at the Sept TREC meeting to defend the proposal...that defense had essentially already been done. Thanks for clearing that part up for me.

[rstrahan]

I'll send the presentation to you.

[John Cahill]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your comments. No offense taken.

The SoP did not fail due to safety, commentary or planning. Just politics.

[John Cahill]

Originally Posted by mboyett

It certainly makes more sense now as to why so little was done at the Sept TREC meeting to defend the proposal...that defense had essentially already been done. Thanks for clearing that part up for me.

Mike, I was informed of "the decision" in advance of the meeting. The motion was written for the Commissioners. We were "dead men walking" going into the room.

[rstrahan]

John, just ordered a Kevlar shoebox