New Washington Legislation Submitted

[wforsyth]

Oh brother. Yeah. Your wife is so brilliant. You are the God and your wife is the Demi-God right? LOL!

You decided to go to email because you realized perhaps that you are publically slandering me maybe?

Oh, and any charges, court action, whatever, DOL, remember...the burden of proof is on you as being the one bringing the charges. I only have to defend myself against whatever proof you can produce.

Good luck with that.

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

Wendy, sorry you are wrong in this. The WSDA has fined and suspended licenses from many many home inspectors over the years. In fact on a regular basis this is information put out in regards to who, when and why fines and suspensions were meted out. The State sends this information out to everyone that is WSDA licensed. Oh wait, maybe thats why you don't know what you are talking about. You aren't licensed so you don't receive this information. These never went to court. They went through the process within the WSDA as written in the Department rules and regulations as approved by the State. Any appeals were dropped by the inspectors at some point during the process, maybe due to cost to proceed or maybe just because they were guilty in the first place, hence the fine and or suspension of license. None have taken the route of proceeding all the way to court. It would most likely be a waste of time and resources.

In the long run, I venture to say that you will end up getting your SPI license or not be a home inspector. You will not challenge the law in court. You will not be grandfathered with the new law. So far you have not shown any credibility within this subject. See you at the hearing on Monday.

actually Stephen, I did know about those.

The reason these were able to be tried by WSDA was because the inspectors PUT THEMSELVES under the rule of WSDA by filing a complete WDO inspection report without either ICN's, or left out conditions or something.

If one NEVER issues a complete WDO inspection report, then the WSDA is no longer able to prosecute as they have no jurisdiction over the inspector.

Think about why these weren't tried in court.

Maybe because WSDA doesn't want it to get to court because they can't prove their case?

And yes, I will see you there.

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

Because other new inspectors in Washington who may read these posts may see what the Law really says. If you've read some of the archives then you may have seen where last summer Windy was telling Dennis Thomas that he didn't need a license at all, that 3 inspectors had taken the WSDA to curt and proved that the Law was invalid, people will believe anything if they can convince themselves that it is to their benefit. Wendy's idea is that if you repeat your opinions often enough they will become facts, she's already done that in her own mind. What I, and others have done is to publish the laws and policies of the WSDA, along with the contacts in WSDA so that people can hear the WSDA state its own "facts", Wendy has never talked to Soumi, maybe new inspectors reading this crap will, that will be to the benefit of NACHI's reputation.

I believe the Law is asinine and I've spent a lot of time arguing it with Soumi himself, as have most of us, how do those arguments end, almost always with Soumi's statement "Its the Law, if you don't like it, get it changed",I don't like it, but as far a Laws I don't like its way down on my list so I like hundreds of others have decided to comply with it and use it to my advantage.

Wendy and all the others can do all the Inspections they like, if they don't have an SPI License they can't legally do them to the NACHI SOP, if they do them to the SOP then they are in violation of the NACHI COE and they should not be allowed to use the NACHI Logo or to be listed on any of the NACHI inspector search sites.

Wendy gets to be a test case, she says she's cahllenging the Law, so I'm going to give her the chance to really do so, first with the ESOP Committee, and then with the WSDA and DOL if needed.

I like her latest, its almost as good as "there's mold in the soil" statement, now she says she's a hero for challenging the law that the rest of us are too afraid to challenge, of course the way she's doing it is by complying with it and not doing any Home Inspections without the SPI License, that's very brave of her, kind of like the kid who holds his breath until she turns blue, she'll show Dr Soumi, he'll be sorry because she won't do any Home Inspections until the Law is changed, poor Dr Soumi, she sure is showing him how tough she is.

Reasoning like that is why I argue with her, that and the constant threat of being sued, you know, "living on the edge" =, the threat of iminent danger, or is it just the laughs I get.

I did find out how Windy gets off my ignore list. My wife sometimes reads the message board when I've left it running, she takes Windy off ignore so that she can make sense of all the "Windy" quotes that appear on so many threads. My wifes theory is that Wendy doesn't really exist, that someone has created her as an internet character to make supid and asinine statements to keep the rest of us laughing because as she says, no one could be that big of a fool about everything.

I'm done with SPI/WDO, for now anything more I have to say will be discussed through email.

Actually, Dennis was the one who told me about the three inspectors. You REALLY like to live on the edge eh?

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by lcapaul
Because other new inspectors in Washington who may read these posts may see what the Law really says. If you've read some of the archives then you may have seen where last summer Windy was telling Dennis Thomas that he didn't need a license at all, that 3 inspectors had taken the WSDA to curt and proved that the Law was invalid, people will believe anything if they can convince themselves that it is to their benefit. Wendy's idea is that if you repeat your opinions often enough they will become facts, she's already done that in her own mind. What I, and others have done is to publish the laws and policies of the WSDA, along with the contacts in WSDA so that people can hear the WSDA state its own "facts", Wendy has never talked to Soumi, maybe new inspectors reading this crap will, that will be to the benefit of NACHI's reputation.
*************************

So YOU have to interpret the law for these poor new inspectors because they can't think and read for themselves? Or is it to ensure people only agree with your opinion as you (and your wife) are the only ones in the world (maybe the universe) who can be right?

You guys must be so bored today. Even Stephen is home. Wow. He usually has more business than you two at least. He and Harold seem to do really well.

[Jeffrey D. Clark]

A little more info for Jim. Read the step 3 note.

[Jeffrey D. Clark]

You guys must be so bored today. Even Stephen is home. Wow. He usually has more business than you two at least. He and Harold seem to do really well.

You don't know ***** about me or my business. You're the one with 6000 posts in your first year without ever doing one legal home inspection. There have been very few days in the past few months that I've even looked at this message board, because I'm too busy.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by wforsyth

Go ahead James. You open up a whole can of worms for yourself. But okay.

I guess that will be me and James then.

Once again you demonstrate your complete lack of Washington Law, the WSDA and the DOL both have places where citizens can make a complaint, then the Agency investigates, any charges brought are brought by the State not the person who made the complaint.

As far as the ESOP Committee, this issue concerns many NACHI Inspectors in Washington State, and you volunteered to be the Test Case, its time the Committee clarified NACHI's position on what laws need to be obeyed, whether it's only the ones we agree with or all of them whether we like them or not, or whether they are confusing or not.

In case you can't remember I will repeat it, I will file a complaint with the ESOP Committee about you, not for doing inspections, but for advertising sevices that you cannot legally do while following the NACHI SOP.

As far as the WSDA my complaint may be much the same, although I may include past statements of yours about inspections you have performed and how you are not going to do "any more" until you get your license, the DOL complaint will be much the same, deception advertising for sevices you cannot legally perform or the reference to following guidlines that you cannot legally perform.

They're all "complaints" Wendy, not charges, not law suits, all things other people will decide.

You told us we were afraid to challenge the Law, but that you being a great heroic protestor were doing so, now you get your chance, you volunteered.

All of us here have email, if you want to keep this up take it there, I'm taking my argument to the "Deciders"

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by wforsyth

Oh brother. Yeah. Your wife is so brilliant. You are the God and your wife is the Demi-God right? LOL!

You decided to go to email because you realized perhaps that you are publically slandering me maybe?

Oh, and any charges, court action, whatever, DOL, remember...the burden of proof is on you as being the one bringing the charges. I only have to defend myself against whatever proof you can produce.

Good luck with that.

Show me some slander Wendy, to be slanderous a statement must be untrue. to be libelous it must be moth untrue and unjust. I'm going to email because we are wasting everbody's time, and you've demonstrated you ignorance enough about this subject, both the law and the subject of WDO.

And Complaints filed with government agencies, once again, are not "charges" the agency investigates complaints and they file any charges, any court time is done with State Attornies, you really do know very little about the law don't you?

In all our arguments over the past year on this subject I'm the one who tell everyone, including you, to contact Dr. Soumi at the WSDA or to talk to your Attorney, which eveyone should have done when they were setting up their Home Inspection business, even new members read that, and I'm not afraid at all about being proven wrong about what I have said about the SPI law, it's all came from conversations and emails with Dr. Soumi, and I have talked with my attorney about the Laws effecting Home Inspectors including the Laws governing the WSDA SPI Licensing.

Here's a question for you Windy, is calling someone a Liar in a public venue without proof that they are lying, or any facts to back up your accusation, Libelous or Slanderous, being the great legal mind I'd like your opinion/

[rcooke]

Pooooooooor Windy Wendy ever one is always picking on her .
She is always correct,just read her posting .
She is an instant expert on Canada She knows all about every thing .
Her word is worth ZIP she changes her mind and every one else is wrong if they dare to disagree with her.
.She has had more law suits ( according to her ) then any one else I know .
She wins most ( according to her ) ( could that be the reason she has so much time to spend telling us all about our errors and how smart she is ).
I think she is just a very jealous person who does not like to live alone .
I wonder how she can even live with her self .
I guess she will have some unnice things to say about me now and how my poor wife must be treated bad by me .

Roy Cooke A Happy NACHI member

[Jeffrey D. Clark]

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/LicensingEd/CaSpiInfo.htm

More info for Jim B. to aid in complaint investigation.

[hmiller]

Originally Posted by jclark1

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/LicensingEd/CaSpiInfo.htm

More info for Jim B. to aid in complaint investigation.

I like this link from your link above;
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/docs/WhatyouneedBEFORE.pdf

[hmiller]

Oh and you can be in the field in between inspections to check e-mail, internet, etc. on what is called Wi-Fi, and of course there are other technological advancements. Kind of important for scheduling appointments and sending e-mailed reports, pictures, etc.

[pdoane]

Picture shows extensive damage (screw driver right through) by "Wood Boring Beetles" in one of many floor joists throughout the crawl space of my inspection this morning. As a SPI/ Home Inspector in WA. State I call it out and put it in my report as a WDO issue/findings, with the required diagram, ICN to legalize the report for a Real Estate Sale, etc.

I'm curious, Those who are conducting home inspections in WA who are not SPI's (For what ever reason - not the issue I'm after) What or how would you report this in your home inspection report? Its not rot! Its not defective wood! Looking your clients in the face, what do you say? I've always wanted to know. Keep in mind you CANT mention WDO Issue (pest, fungus, etc) or else you would be in violation because only Licensed SPI's can legally comment on them in a report... Please enlighten me. Again, I'm just curious of your report wording, I'm not picking a side here.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by wforsyth

sigh

Notice the word "Practically" Windy? Straight out of the WSDA.

:: Our Services :: Regular Home Inspection
Inspector Wendy's Home Inspections is Washington's most dependable choice in professional prepurchase, warranty, and construction home inspections. Discover the difference in our inspections as we reveal our service. Our computer generated reports give you a clear and concise understanding of the property. All of our narrative reports include digital photos that are printed and delivered after your inspection. You can be assured that your inspector will have the knowledge to fully understand the safety aspects and reveal to you the true condition of your new home or current residence. Our certified property inspections meet the NACHI Standards of Practice. We provide you with an unbiased view of the property to allow you to make an informed decision.

How do you do that Windy?

WAC 16-228-2045

Complete wood destroying organism inspection reports.


(1) Any report that identifies damage or infestation by WDOs or, conditions conducive to damage or infestation by WDOs pursuant to the sale, exchange, or refinancing of any structure or, as a result of telephone solicitation by an inspection, pest control, or other business, must be a complete WDO inspection report and must comply with this section. The terms "Report" or "report" as used in this section will mean a complete WDO inspection report.

(2) Report form: A written report may take any form in presentation, provided that all elements of this section are included and identifiable.

(3) A complete WDO inspection report must be issued to the person paying for and/or otherwise requesting the inspection.

(4) Report contents: Reports must contain the information identified in this section, when and where applicable.

(a) Washington state department of agriculture inspection control number (WSDA ICN): A WSDA ICN must be obtained in accordance with the provisions of RCW 15.58.450 and be prominently displayed in the upper third of the front page of each report. This number must be unique to the structure(s) subject to the report. The assigned WSDA ICN must follow the original report and supplemental reports (if any) pertaining to the sale, exchange, or refinancing activity on a property for a specific client. A new WSDA ICN must be issued for any subsequent sale, exchange, or refinancing activity.

(b) Date: The date the inspection was conducted must be provided on the first page of the report.

(c) Parties involved in the real estate transaction: The name of the property owner, their designated representative, or purchaser of the inspection report must be identified on the first page of the report.

(d) Address of structure inspected: The complete address will include, but is not limited to, building number, street name, city, and state and must be identified on the first page of the report. Where multiple structures at a property may have the same basic address, a building letter, unit number, or other recognizable method must be used to identify the specific building inspected.

(e) Inspector: The name of the inspector and WSDA license number must be provided on the first page of the report.

(5) Report of findings: A complete WDO inspection report must detail the findings of the inspector. The following minimum conditions, where applicable, must be in the body of the report.

(a) Damage and/or infestation by WDOs: The report must identify any damage or infestation by WDOs on or in the structure.

(b) Conditions conducive to damage and/or infestation by WDOs must be explained in narrative form in accordance with the provisions of WAC 16-228-2025. When evidence of moisture ants, dampwood termites, wood infesting anobiids, or wood decay fungi is detected during a complete WDO inspection, the inspector must identify and report the condition(s) conducive to such infestations. It must be stated in the report that such infestations may be eliminated by removal of all infested wood and correction of any contributing conducive conditions.

(c) When reporting conducive conditions, the inspector must describe the condition and annotate the diagram with an approximate location of that condition. Provided that; if conducive conditions within the interior of the structure can be clearly described in the report findings, diagramed representation of such conditions is not required.

(d) Inaccessible areas will be fully identified in narrative form where such areas are annotated on the report diagram.

(e) Excluded areas: The report must list all excluded areas not already defined in WAC 16-228-2005 (2)(i) as inaccessible.

(6) Diagrams: A diagram must be prepared for each inspection report. Upon request, a copy must be provided to the person paying for and/or otherwise requesting the inspection.

(a) A diagram is not required when there are no findings as described in WAC 16-228-2015 and 16-228-2025.

(b) Scaled diagrams are not required; however, diagrams must reasonably resemble the perimeter or footprint of the building being inspected and legibly convey any information that is a required part of the diagram.

(c) Diagrams must identify the approximate location of inaccessible areas.

(d) Diagrams must identify the approximate location of WDOs, damage, and/or conducive conditions leading to an infestation of WDOs.

(e) Where abbreviations are used on a diagram, a legend must be provided to explain the abbreviations.

(f) When a diagram is not provided as part of the report, the following statement must appear in a prominent location. "WAC 16-228-2045 requires that a diagram be prepared for WDO inspection reports. A copy is available upon request."

(g) Locations for this statement include, but are not limited to, the following:

(i) Above or beneath the WSDA ICN;

(ii) On written documents such as preinspection agreements or attachments to the report.

(h) This statement must stand out by having larger print than the main body of the report, be highlighted, or be in bold print.

(7) Excluded areas must be annotated on the diagram.

( A record of all complete WDO inspection reports prepared for real estate transactions or resulting from telephone solicitation must be maintained on file by the inspecting firm for a period of four years. Upon written request, these records must be made available to the WSDA.



[Statutory Authority: RCW 15.58.040 and chapter 34.05 RCW. 02-24-025, § 16-228-2045, filed 11/27/02, effective 12/28/02.]

Wouldn't a Home Inspection performed to the NACHI SOP identify damage or infestation by WDOs or, conditions conducive to damage or infestation by WDOs pursuant to the sale, exchange, or refinancing of any structure or, as a result of telephone solicitation by an inspection, pest control, or other business? Mine do, even in Idaho where an SPI is not required, what parts of the SOP do you leave out to get out of the requirment to supbmit a Complete WDO Report? Notice the WAC says ANY REPORT, not just a pest inspection report

This WAC should have came after the first to make it more clear to simple minded creatures.

WAC 16-228-2035 Complete wood destroying organism inspections. (1) Any WDO inspection conducted by any person pursuant to the sale, exchange, or refinancing of real property or, as a result of telephone solicitation by an inspection, pest control, or other business, must be a complete WDO inspection and must be performed by individuals required to be licensed. Such inspections will be conducted in accordance with the rules established by this chapter.
(2) Inspectors must make a thorough inspection of accessible areas that are not specifically excluded in the report. Inspectors will not be required to place themselves into a position or gain access to any portion of a structure that may cause physical injury or otherwise imperil their health and safety. Access to structures should be restricted to the use of accepted methods and practices.
(3) Substructure crawl areas must be inspected when accessible. Inaccessibility of substructure crawl areas due to inadequate clearance, the presence of ducting or piping, foundation walls, partitions or other such conditions that block access must be explained in the inspection report and annotated on the report diagram. The report findings must state that inaccessible substructure crawl areas may be vulnerable to infestation by WDOs and should be made accessible for inspection.
(4) Limits of inspections: Complete WDO inspections will identify conditions present at a subject property at the time of an inspection. Inspectors are not required to report on any WDO infestation or other condition that might be subject to seasonal constraints or environmental conditions if evidence of those constraints or conditions is not visible at the time of the inspection. (WSR 02-24-025, Effective December 28, 2002

WAC 16-228-2045 says when a Complete WDO Inspection is required, WAC 16-228-2035 states that the Complete WDO Inspection needs to be done by a licensed SPI. Again what parts of the NACHI SOP or COE do you leave out to perform a Legal Home Inspection, which is any inspection that does not mention WDO's or conducive conditions.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by hmiller

I like this link from your link above;
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/docs/WhatyouneedBEFORE.pdf

here are the two most important links regarding licensing:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.a...te=16-228-2045

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.a...te=16-228-2035

Pretty simple "ANY REPORT"