New Washington Legislation Submitted

[Harold E. Miller]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

here are the two most important links regarding licensing:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.a...te=16-228-2045

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.a...te=16-228-2035

Pretty simple "ANY REPORT"

Ya, but outsiders don't get it if the words "home inspector" are not included.

They think that you can report on all those problems, yet just call yourself an HI and you are in the clear.

[James H. Bushart]

Okay. Under the heading "Complete wood destroying organism inspection reports" are the instructions for structural pest inspectors who are completing a report on their wood destroying organism inspection regarding "all reports" that they write. I can see that. Seems pretty simple and obvious.


Is there anything in the law that addresses home inspection reports written by home inspectors or are you simply stretching this on your own to cover a home inspection report, as well?

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by pdoane

Keep in mind you CANT mention WDO Issue (pest, fungus, etc) or else you would be in violation because only Licensed SPI's can legally comment on them in a report... Please enlighten me. Again, I'm just curious of your report wording, I'm not picking a side here.

Your law only governs the comments made on what it defines as a "complete WDO report". It does not govern the wording in a home inspection report. Those who are copying that portion of the law that emphasizes "any report" are neglecting to read and emphasize the part of the law that specifies "The terms "Report" or "report" as used in this section will mean a complete WDO inspection report."

A home inspection report that may or may not, depending upon the conditions of the home, include (in part) certain observations that could be relevant to WDO is not, as defined by your law, "a complete WDO inspection report" and, accordingly, is not governed by this law, IMO.

A home inspector can legally comment on anything covered by his SOP.

When he finds areas of damage that "might" be related to "possible" WDO, he would defer to a licensed specialist...just like he does any other area that he is not fully qualified to detail (i.e. structural issues, etc.).

[jclark1]

Wrong again Jim. Any mention of a conducive condition in a home inspection report requires that you then do a correctly formatted WDO report. You can do it separate and include it with your report. The WDO report then becomes part of the record of that house because it is assigned an ICN.

[jclark1]

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/docs/HomeInspectorSteps.pdf
I posted this once before in this thread for you Jim. Read the note to #3 in particular and tell me where the ambiguity is. The reason it is next to impossible to do a home inspection without the WDO report is conducive conditions.

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

Show me some slander Wendy, to be slanderous a statement must be untrue. to be libelous it must be moth untrue and unjust. I'm going to email because we are wasting everbody's time, and you've demonstrated you ignorance enough about this subject, both the law and the subject of WDO.

And Complaints filed with government agencies, once again, are not "charges" the agency investigates complaints and they file any charges, any court time is done with State Attornies, you really do know very little about the law don't you?

In all our arguments over the past year on this subject I'm the one who tell everyone, including you, to contact Dr. Soumi at the WSDA or to talk to your Attorney, which eveyone should have done when they were setting up their Home Inspection business, even new members read that, and I'm not afraid at all about being proven wrong about what I have said about the SPI law, it's all came from conversations and emails with Dr. Soumi, and I have talked with my attorney about the Laws effecting Home Inspectors including the Laws governing the WSDA SPI Licensing.

Here's a question for you Windy, is calling someone a Liar in a public venue without proof that they are lying, or any facts to back up your accusation, Libelous or Slanderous, being the great legal mind I'd like your opinion/

If there isn't proof it is probably libel if written. If you are referring to me calling you a liar, I do have proof.

[wforsyth]

ANY REPORT when referencing COMPLETE WOOD DESTROYING ORGANISM INSPECTIONS. NOT JUST ANY REPORT.
IT'S SO OBVIOUS IF IT WAS A SNAKE IT WOULD BITE YOU.
WAC 16-228-2035

Complete wood destroying organism inspections.

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by pdoane

Picture shows extensive damage (screw driver right through) by "Wood Boring Beetles" in one of many floor joists throughout the crawl space of my inspection this morning. As a SPI/ Home Inspector in WA. State I call it out and put it in my report as a WDO issue/findings, with the required diagram, ICN to legalize the report for a Real Estate Sale, etc.

I'm curious, Those who are conducting home inspections in WA who are not SPI's (For what ever reason - not the issue I'm after) What or how would you report this in your home inspection report? Its not rot! Its not defective wood! Looking your clients in the face, what do you say? I've always wanted to know. Keep in mind you CANT mention WDO Issue (pest, fungus, etc) or else you would be in violation because only Licensed SPI's can legally comment on them in a report... Please enlighten me. Again, I'm just curious of your report wording, I'm not picking a side here.

You are not reading the law with the correct emphasis. It says that you cannot report conducive conditions in a COMPLETE WOOD DESTROYING ORGANISM REPORT without being a licensed SPI. It does NOT say you cannot mention conducive conditions. Only that you cannot place them in an official report. It does not say you cannot call them out and defer them to a specialist. This is what everyone on the opposing side is NOT getting.
This is why The WSDA guidelines are just that. Guidelines.

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

WAC 16-228-2045 says when a Complete WDO Inspection is required, WAC 16-228-2035 states that the Complete WDO Inspection needs to be done by a licensed SPI. Again what parts of the NACHI SOP or COE do you leave out to perform a Legal Home Inspection, which is any inspection that does not mention WDO's or conducive conditions.

III. The inspectors are not required to:

A. Move any personal items or other obstructions, such as, but not limited to:

1. Throw rugs.
2. Furniture.
3. Floor or wall coverings.
4. Ceiling tiles
5. Window coverings.
6. Equipment.
7. Plants.
8. Ice.
9. Debris.
10. Snow.
11. Water.
12. Dirt.
13. Foliage.
14. Pets

B. Dismantle, open, or uncover any system or component.
C. Enter or access any area which may, in the opinion of the inspector, to be unsafe or risk personal safety.
D. Enter crawlspaces or other areas that are unsafe or not readily accessible.
E. Inspect underground items such as, but not limited to, underground storage tanks or other indications of their presence, whether abandoned or actively used.
F. Do anything which, in the inspector's opinion, is likely to be unsafe or dangerous to the inspector or others or damage property, such as, but not limited to, walking on roof surfaces, climbing ladders, entering attic spaces or negotiating with dogs.
G. Inspect decorative items.
H. Inspect common elements or areas in multi-unit housing.
I. Inspect intercoms, speaker systems, radio-controlled, security devices or lawn irrigation systems.
J. Offer guarantees or warranties.
K. Offer or perform any engineering services.
L. Offer or perform any trade or professional service other than home inspection.
M. Research the history of the property, report on its potential for alteration, modification, extendibility, or its suitability for a specific or proposed use for occupancy.
N. Determine the age of construction or installation of any system structure, or component of a building, or differentiate between original construction or subsequent additions, improvements, renovations or replacements thereto.
O. Determine the insurability of a property.
P. Perform or offer Phase 1 environmental audits.
Q. Inspect on any system or component which is not included in these standards.

[rwand1]

Windy

Are you truly qualified to inspect homes, leaving WDO out of the equation?

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Your law only governs the comments made on what it defines as a "complete WDO report". It does not govern the wording in a home inspection report. Those who are copying that portion of the law that emphasizes "any report" are neglecting to read and emphasize the part of the law that specifies "The terms "Report" or "report" as used in this section will mean a complete WDO inspection report."

A home inspection report that may or may not, depending upon the conditions of the home, include (in part) certain observations that could be relevant to WDO is not, as defined by your law, "a complete WDO inspection report" and, accordingly, is not governed by this law, IMO.

A home inspector can legally comment on anything covered by his SOP.

When he finds areas of damage that "might" be related to "possible" WDO, he would defer to a licensed specialist...just like he does any other area that he is not fully qualified to detail (i.e. structural issues, etc.).

YES! EXACTLY!!!

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Wendy does the person who gives out welfare in your state know you are making money from home inspections and income from other methods?

Roy Cooke

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Your law only governs the comments made on what it defines as a "complete WDO report". It does not govern the wording in a home inspection report. Those who are copying that portion of the law that emphasizes "any report" are neglecting to read and emphasize the part of the law that specifies "The terms "Report" or "report" as used in this section will mean a complete WDO inspection report."

A home inspection report that may or may not, depending upon the conditions of the home, include (in part) certain observations that could be relevant to WDO is not, as defined by your law, "a complete WDO inspection report" and, accordingly, is not governed by this law, IMO.

A home inspector can legally comment on anything covered by his SOP.

When he finds areas of damage that "might" be related to "possible" WDO, he would defer to a licensed specialist...just like he does any other area that he is not fully qualified to detail (i.e. structural issues, etc.).

James,

Reread 2045, it begins with "ANY REPORT" and then states that a Complete WDO Report must be done for the listed conditions, it does not specify what kind of report, or who is doing it, it states that ANY Report that identifies damage or infestation by WDOs or, conditions conducive to damage or infestation by WDOs pursuant to the sale, exchange, or refinancing of any structure or, as a result of telephone solicitation by an inspection, pest control, or other business, must be a complete WDO inspection report and must comply with this section....

A Home Inspection Report that that identifies damage or infestation by WDOs or, conditions conducive to damage or infestation by WDOs pursuant to the sale, exchange, or refinancing of any structure or, as a result of telephone solicitation by an inspection, pest control, or other business, would therefore need to be a Complete WDO Inspection as soon as WDO damage was found, like it says ANY REPORT

The two WAC's I posted would make more sense if they were reversed, 2045 identifies when a WDO Report is required and 2035 specifies who can conduct the WDO Inspection, a Licensed SPI.

A Home Inspector who identifies WDO Damage etc. etc. in his report must make his report a Complete WDO Report, to do so he/she must be licesned in accordance with 2035

"The terms "Report" or "report" as used in this section will mean a complete WDO inspection report." applies to Any Report that mentions WDO......If your home inspection Report mentions WDO, it becomes a Complete WDO report, if it doesn't mention WDO then it is still a Home Inspection report, how many of those out of say 100 do you think any competent Inspector following the SOP would find.

If they would write laws in English they would be a lot easier to understan, most Home Inspectors in Washington are Licensed, do you think they are all stupid, or "afraid" to challenge the Law, don't you think that some time during the past 15 years it would have been overturned if it could be done?

It's like you said on the same subject back in Sept., the time to stop a law is when its being proposed, once its passed you have to live with it, you even told Washington Inspectors to get there license. That was an interesting thread, mostly a copy of this one, except that Joe F. spoke out, and Wendy threatened to sue more people in that thread than she has in this one, including Joe.

I have much the same opinion as you do about this Law, it's asinine, poorly written, and difficult to understand, but I have had the law explained to me by both Dr. Soumi and my Attorney, its valid and to perform an Inspection to any Industry Standard a Home Inspector will need to be licensed for practically every Inspection. A person can do Home Inspections without mention of WDO, but what is that Inspection worth and how would it meet the standards of the SOP? Which has priority, opinion or the Law?

No one has gotten me to understand why a Home Inspector could not sub out the WDO portion of their report without it being illegal, but it is, of course I don't know why any one would want to waste the money to sub it out in the first place, just get a license and do them, as someone else said they're not brain surgery.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jclark1

Any mention of a conducive condition in a home inspection report requires that you then do a correctly formatted WDO report. You can do it separate and include it with your report. The WDO report then becomes part of the record of that house because it is assigned an ICN.

Your law does not say that. Read it, again.

There is nothing in your law requiring a home inspector who is not licensed as an SPI to write a "correctly formatted WDO report". That requirement exists only for a licensed SPI who is doing a WDO inspection...which a home inspector is not.

Nope. You are trying to push a square peg into a round hole, IMO. There is nothing in the law governing structural pest inspectors that directly affects a home inspector.

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by jclark1

Wrong again Jim. Any mention of a conducive condition in a home inspection report requires that you then do a correctly formatted WDO report. You can do it separate and include it with your report. The WDO report then becomes part of the record of that house because it is assigned an ICN.

Prove this. Where is this stated. Like this, not from your own interpretation.