New Washington Legislation Submitted

[jclark1]

She threatened to sue me months ago. I laughed then just like I am now. What a joke.

[James H. Bushart]

I've read your law and Dan Suomi's synopsis of it and, frankly guys, it is not clear that anyone other than one who advertises himself as an SPI must have a license. Mr Suomi's introduction to his synopsis even goes as far as to address two groups by name - structural pest inspectors and home inspectors - and continues on that it is the structural pest inspectors who must be licensed. He makes no such claim as to the home inspector.

After reading the actual law, I have to agree with Wendy on this one. Can anyone provide anything definitive...other than an interpretation...that specifically and clearly states that a home inspector must have an SPI license?

The way I read the law, a home inspector need not be licensed as an SPI. He should, when calling out applicable concerns, recommend further evalation by one when appropriate. That seems good enough.

[jclark1]

WAC 16-228-2045
Complete wood destroying organism inspection reports.
(1) Any report that identifies damage or infestation by WDOs or, conditions conducive to damage or infestation by WDOs pursuant to the sale, exchange, or refinancing of any structure or, as a result of telephone solicitation by an inspection, pest control, or other business, must be a complete WDO inspection report and must comply with this section. The terms "Report" or "report" as used in this section will mean a complete WDO inspection report.
(2) Report form: A written report may take any form in presentation, provided that all elements of this section are included and identifiable.
(3) A complete WDO inspection report must be issued to the person paying for and/or otherwise requesting the inspection.
(4) Report contents: Reports must contain the information identified in this section, when and where applicable.
(a) Washington state department of agriculture inspection control number (WSDA ICN): A WSDA ICN must be obtained in accordance with the provisions of RCW 15.58.450 and be prominently displayed in the upper third of the front page of each report. This number must be unique to the structure(s) subject to the report. The assigned WSDA ICN must follow the original report and supplemental reports (if any) pertaining to the sale, exchange, or refinancing activity on a property for a specific client. A new WSDA ICN must be issued for any subsequent sale, exchange, or refinancing activity.

Here's a start

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

The first hearing on this newly proposed legislation will be this Monday, at 10:00am in Senate Hearing Room #4 at the State Capitol.

Enough of the WDO / WDI.

The first paper issued by the STATE says that "If you are conducting inspections for potential or proposed real estate transactions" you must be a licensed Structural Pest Inspector.

JB. In this state, we do an initial inspection for WDO/WDI/CC. If any are found, just like any other specialty, we refer to the appropriate trade.

If there is a plumbing leak, we recommend repair as needed by licensed plumbing contractor. We are off the hook as a Structural Pest Inspector.

If there is a WDI, we refer to a licensed PCO for further evaluation, treatment and repair as needed. We are finished with out portion.

If there are condusive conditions, say wood debris in the crawl space, we recommend it be removed. No need to refer to a specialist. IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE.

Too much is being made out of a SPI being a specialist. If anything, it is a "specialist lite". If you find something, you refer to the true specialist, the PCO OR APPROPRIATE TRADE SPECIALIST.

[jclark1]

Here's more.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jclark1

Here's a start

If I note issues that break the seal that allows moisture to enter the structure, without commenting on WDO or it being conducive to WDO, I have no obligation to be licensed.

"Caulking is deteriorating around certain windows. There is evidence of past moisture intrusion at certain spots. Recommend repair." If the client wants to inquire further as to the potential for harm, I could simply refer them to a licensed SPI. Could I not?

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jclark1

Here's more.

Still not conclusive, Mr. Clark.

[jclark1]

Believe the rational people here Jim. This horse has been beat to a bloody pulp. There is no debate, in Washington State you can not legally do home inspections (real estate sale or purchase related) without an SPI. I could keep finding and posting info for you but I've got better things to do.

[jclark1]

You must not have read that last document very well. I don't know how much more clear it could be. Where is the ambiguity?

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by jbushart

If I note issues that break the seal that allows moisture to enter the structure, without commenting on WDO or it being conducive to WDO, I have no obligation to be licensed.

"Caulking is deteriorating around certain windows. There is evidence of past moisture intrusion at certain spots. Recommend repair." If the client wants to inquire further as to the potential for harm, I could simply refer them to a licensed SPI. Could I not?

NO, you could not report that without a SPI license.

JB.......you have private email.

Steve

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

NO, you could not report that without a SPI license.

JB.......you have private email.

Steve

If I were a contractor and you asked me to come to your home and examine your windows and I reported that they should be re-flashed, for some reason...you are saying that I, too, would need an SPI license? I think you guys are taking the law out of context.

When an inspection is done and a report is provided to a client with the intent and purpose of inspecting for and reporting on damages and conducive conditions of WDO/WDI, that inspection and report must be done by a licensed SPI. That is what your law says.

When an inspection is done and a report is provided to a client with the intent and purposed of inspecting for and reporting on the conditions of the structure and its systems, without specific regard to WDO/WDI, it is not clear in your law that the person conducting that inspection must be a licensed SPI, IMO.

[jschulte]

Silly James, reading laws when fliers produced by some state employee are available. Don't you know that state employees are never wrong and can't be challenged?

[Harold E. Miller]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

The first hearing on this newly proposed legislation will be this Monday, at 10:00am in Senate Hearing Room #4 at the State Capitol.

Enough of the WDO / WDI.

The first paper issued by the STATE says that "If you are conducting inspections for potential or proposed real estate transactions" you must be a licensed Structural Pest Inspector.

JB. In this state, we do an initial inspection for WDO/WDI/CC. If any are found, just like any other specialty, we refer to the appropriate trade.

If there is a plumbing leak, we recommend repair as needed by licensed plumbing contractor. We are off the hook as a Structural Pest Inspector.

If there is a WDI, we refer to a licensed PCO for further evaluation, treatment and repair as needed. We are finished with out portion.

If there are condusive conditions, say wood debris in the crawl space, we recommend it be removed. No need to refer to a specialist. IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE.

Too much is being made out of a SPI being a specialist. If anything, it is a "specialist lite". If you find something, you refer to the true specialist, the PCO OR APPROPRIATE TRADE SPECIALIST.

Hey Steve thanks for the post on the scheduled hearing; http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2007&bill=5788

For those that will not be able to attend the hearing in person, I thought I would paste a link to TVW for those who still want to it http://www.tvw.org/media/liveevnts.cfm
TVW has archives and live video of hearings, and I would have to assume that they will have a video of this hearing. ?
Does not show Monday's schedule yet.

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by jbushart

If I were a contractor and you asked me to come to your home and examine your windows and I reported that they should be re-flashed, for some reason...you are saying that I, too, would need an SPI license?

NO. Inspection for the purpose of preparing a bid proposal would not require a SPI license. And a plumber called in for repairs to the plumbing system would not need to have a SPI license to say there is a leak.


When an inspection is done and a report is provided to a client with the intent and purpose of inspecting for and reporting on damages and conducive conditions of WDO/WDI, that inspection and report must be done by a licensed SPI. That is what your law says.

When an inspection is done and a report is provided to a client with the intent and purposed of inspecting for and reporting on the conditions of the structure and its systems, without specific regard to WDO/WDI, it is not clear in your law that the person conducting that inspection must be a licensed SPI, IMO.

If the property is part of a sales transaction, potential sales transaction or even a possible sales transaction, yes it would require a SPI license. Many times laws will not have specific language as part of the actual law. That is left for the manuals, interpretive correspondence from say the Attorney General or Department Head and other sources that are attached at the state level. Those guidelines and interpretations, when implemented appropriately and properly, have as much standing as the actual wording of the law.

JB, there seems to be a number of inspectors that do not believe that having a SPI license is required. Unfortunately a large number of them are NACHI members. All the other organizations and most independants seem to have their act together and have their SPI. It does not look good for us as an organization to have the leading number of inspectors, that do not follow the interpretation of the law as provided by the State Department in charge.

[Harold E. Miller]

Originally Posted by jbushart

If I were a contractor and you asked me to come to your home and examine your windows and I reported that they should be re-flashed, for some reason...you are saying that I, too, would need an SPI license? I think you guys are taking the law out of context.

When an inspection is done and a report is provided to a client with the intent and purpose of inspecting for and reporting on damages and conducive conditions of WDO/WDI, that inspection and report must be done by a licensed SPI. That is what your law says.

When an inspection is done and a report is provided to a client with the intent and purposed of inspecting for and reporting on the conditions of the structure and its systems, without specific regard to WDO/WDI, it is not clear in your law that the person conducting that inspection must be a licensed SPI, IMO.

James

The SPI laws do not keep a licensed contractor, architect, engineer, etc. from performing their jobs. But they are not performing inspections for a real estate transaction, and providing a report. That is one of the differences in the scenario you presented.

Probably the same way states with HI laws do not restrict, contractors and others from performing their normal duties.

I think it is kind of a mute point regardless. If someone feels they are not bound to the same standards or laws as the rest of us, then fine. That is their business decision.

There use to be alot of HI's unlicensed as SPI's, and I have seen alot of home inspectors come into compliance within the last few years.....especially when they started requiring identification control numbers (ICN's), and then the agents, and lenders wanted to start seeing these on reports they received.

Remember SPI's are not licensed pest control operators (PCO's) we don't spray....we just inspect.

If I find that the toilet is leaking and the wood floor has fungal wood rot decay.....I can report it. But an HI with no SPI license is not allowed to report it.....

If I find that the shower wall covering caulking has failed....I can report it...but a non compliant HI can't......

Bark against the siding.

gutters discharging at the foundation

missing or insufficient vapor barrier in the crawl space.

plumbing leaks.

insufficient ventilation.

wood debris in the crawl space.

hot water tank leaking.

dishwasher leaking.

Water intrusions in exterior trim, flashings, siding, etc.

Roof leaks

etc. etc. etc.

See my point....how can any home inspector who is not licensed as an SPI report on any of the above deficiencies without doing a very limited home inspection that excludes a large portion of the home.

And that list above is incomplete. There are alot more possibilities.

Everyone can believe what they want, interpret the RCW's and WAC's any way they want.
Oh and the "guidance documents" we receive are based on the RCWs and WACs, they aren't just made up by the state employees off the cuff. Some people can't understand laws, the guidance docs are there to help us understand our responsibilities.

James. If you want to correspond with someone who was involved in the drafting of this law, is involved in the enforcement, and who knows this better than any number of us combined, then just contact Dan Soume. He is the man that can answer your questions, and provide the proof you need.