Nick Gromicko's Response to Biased Kansas HI Bill

[James H. Bushart]

Thanks, Nick!

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THE COHEN LAW GROUP
A Professional Corporation
_________________________________
Mark Cohen Jeffrey D. Cohen, J.D., LL.M., C.P.A.
The Cohen Law Firm, P.C.
Of Counsel
February 25, 2009
Via Email

Sen. David Wysong

RE: Kansas Home Inspector Registration Board

Dear Senator Wysong:

We represent the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors – InterNACHI. InterNACHI is the largest trade association representing the interests of home inspectors in North America, with more than 8,000 members. The IRS has granted InterNACHI taxexempt status under Section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code. The two other major trade associations in the industry are ASHI and NAHI (a much smaller organization).

We wrote to Governor Sebelius last May to express concern about the possible appointment of Jeff Barnes to the Board tasked to implement your state’s new legislation governing home inspectors. Unfortunately, since that time many of the concerns InterNACHI had expressed about Mr. Barnes have proven to have been prophetic.

Since the home inspection bill became law, much has changed. Kansans are facing hard times and the State of Kansas itself has severe fiscal problems. The law is not protecting taxpayers. The legislation was a gift to special interests, people such as Mr. Barnes.

Although they failed to demonstrate a need for such legislation, it imposes additional burdens and costs on all home inspectors, and particularly those who do not belong to ASHI. Home inspectors necessarily pass these costs on to their customers at a time when they can least afford them and when nothing should be done to interfere with the sale of homes.

Mr. Barnes has used his position to implement and interpret the legislation to the advantage of members of his organization – ASHI. Since his appointment Mr. Barnes has already demonstrated his bias by ruling that those who passed the ASHI test (not psychometrically evaluated) need not incur the expense of retesting, but those who have passed the InterNACHI test (also not psychometrically evaluated) must pay to take another test.

2

Moreover, the insurance burdens and educational provisions contained in the law are exceedingly burdensome on the rural inspectors who mostly shun ASHI and prefer the online educational opportunities offered by InterNACHI. The result is to open the rural portions of Kansas for the big city inspectors who charge much higher fees.

In spite of the current confusion regarding the legislation, Mr. Barnes continues to push forth his agenda and has initiated steps that would favor his national association and its members over others.

InterNACHI encourages you to take a hard look at the new legislation. What will it cost the State of Kansas, and who really benefits from it? Once Kansas enacts new legislation, InterNACHI urges you to help choose new licensing board members – men and woman who have not demonstrated bias against inspectors belonging that do not belong to their national associations and who have not demonstrate bias against inspectors in rural areas.

We know you face many issues, and that home inspection legislation is but one of those. Your time is valuable, but I would like to ask for twenty or thirty minutes of your time so InterNACHI’s Founder and I can meet you in person and explain our thoughts on how to improve the legislation.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

THE COHEN LAW GROUP
A Professional Corporation

MSC:tb MARK COHEN

[Erol Kartal]

8,000 members?

[bjones5]

I know it's still early Jim, but has there been any kind of response or aknowledgement?

[James H. Bushart]

The house passed the bill and sent it to the Senate. The Senate has the bill and the committee that is reviewing it is chaired by the recipient of this letter.

The Governor who approved the bill will be leaving Kansas for Washington D.C. soon and we are hoping that the person who takes her place running a state on its way into bankruptcy...will be more hesitant to sign such a wasteful spending measure, should the senate actually approve this POS.

[jvogan]

Didn't I hear on the radio the other day that Kansas was not going to be giving Kansans' their income tax returns because the state was bankrupt?

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jvogan

Didn't I hear on the radio the other day that Kansas was not going to be giving Kansans' their income tax returns because the state was bankrupt?

They are delaying the refunds...but they are not officially bankrupt....yet.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Youse guys are way off base, not well informed and this is embarassing to our profession as a whole. Get your facts straight.

I have sat through several legislative hearings on the Bill or through several home inspection meetings over the past 2 years and personally heard Luca Bella (the Kansas Realtors lobbyist) or Jeff Barnes assure everyone this Bill will have no fiscal impact on the state BECAUSE it will be totally self-funded by the home inspectors themselves.

Number 2 - When asked by the Senate Commerce Committee last year and the House Commerce Committee this year about their Budget - I've heard Mr Bella and Mr Barnes indicate they had not really put together a Budget of sorts BUT Mr. Barnes had talked to several other small Boards of other Professions AND felt that we could adequately run the Kansas Home Inspectors Board for less than $40k. With an estimated 200 inspectors in Kansas (last years numbers before the real estate decline) at $200 apiece they indicated that should pull in about $40,000 to run the Kansas Board with. Jeff and Luca both told Committee Members that was more than enough to do the job.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Something else I learned by listening to Luke Bell or Jeff Barnes last year in Committee Hearings that I was not aware of:

At various times they both testified to the Commerce Committee's that if a home inspector uses an inspection agreement that includes a clause with a limit of liability clause and there’s EVER a problem the buyer has no recourse. I didn't know that. Naive little old me, thought that:

1) To start with, the Kansas “Small Claims Process” allows an aggrieved consumer to file a claim against another party OR business (including Home Inspectors) through the Kansas Court System for an amount up to $4,000 without going to the expense of hiring an attorney. The special interest groups or proponents of the home inspection bill failed to mention that fact to the committee.

2) As an expert witness I’m often hired to support or dispute another home inspector OR engineers report - all of whom had limit of liability clauses in their contracts. Many professions use these types of clauses in their service contracts with their clients. When my grandsons school sends students on an outing, they have the parents sign a release of liability statement saying we won’t hold the school responsible if the student is hurt; when I got lasik surgery the doctor gave me a 16 page limit of liability form to sign, saying they’d do the best job they could - but it might not work and in some instances people have ended up with worse vision than before the surgery OR have even gone blind; the Real Estate Contract used by the Kansas City Board of Realtors has over 5 clauses STATING they have NO LIABILITY to anyone if this or that happens. If what the KAR lobbyist told the committee is true, then neither the school, the doctor or a Realtor could EVER be sued in our state - Kansas consumers have no recourse if these folks botch something up / Right or Wrong What Do You think??

3) Its VERY wrong, and the KAR lobbyist or Trial Attorneys lobbyist both know it (OR they LACK a lot of knowledge about their own profession and our states legal system). If the bus driver is on drugs and rolls the bus and hurts a child; if the doctor shows up drunk and nicks your cornea; if the Realtor tells a seller to not disclose things that later become problems for the homebuyer - there is recourse. Its called our legal system (arbitration, mediation or in some cases a lawsuit). It’s the SAME with home inspectors.

So what did I learn last year - $$$$ talks in politics.

[Gary Farnsworth]

Out of 105 counties in the state of Kansas, only 8 have populations over 60,000. In those 8 counties, how many home inspectors are there left today? 50, 80? You cannot run, operate, and enforce any board or orginzation with only $10k to $16k, pay a secretary and attorneys. The board, at this time and economy, cannot be self-funded. The lawmakers in Kansas are being railroaded by the attorneys, special interest groups, and lobbyists who only want to benefit themselves. Not the consumers or home buyers of Kansas. Wake up. This cannot be good for the governor, who is moving to Washington at this time. This is a blemish that needs to go away.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Gary -

I didn't realize that, but I checked and you're right. There are only 8 counties in Kansas with over 60,000 population according to the last census.

Douglas County - Lawrence
Johnson County - Overland Park, Lenexa, Olathe, Shawnee, etc
Leavenworth County - Leavenworth & Ft Leavenworth
Reno County - Hutchinson
Riley County - Manhattan, Junction City & Ft. Riley
Sedgewick County - Wichita
Shawnee County - Topeka
Wyandotte County - Kansas City, KS


That means that 93 Counties DON't go into licensing until 2011. Whow, ain't that gonna be expensive FOR somebody.

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Youse guys are way off base, not well informed and this is embarassing to our profession as a whole. Get your facts straight.

I have sat through several legislative hearings on the Bill or through several home inspection meetings over the past 2 years and personally heard Luca Bella (the Kansas Realtors lobbyist) or Jeff Barnes assure everyone this Bill will have no fiscal impact on the state BECAUSE it will be totally self-funded by the home inspectors themselves.

Number 2 - When asked by the Senate Commerce Committee last year and the House Commerce Committee this year about their Budget - I've heard Mr Bella and Mr Barnes indicate they had not really put together a Budget of sorts BUT Mr. Barnes had talked to several other small Boards of other Professions AND felt that we could adequately run the Kansas Home Inspectors Board for less than $40k. With an estimated 200 inspectors in Kansas (last years numbers before the real estate decline) at $200 apiece they indicated that should pull in about $40,000 to run the Kansas Board with. Jeff and Luca both told Committee Members that was more than enough to do the job.

Here in NH they are doing the same thing. $200.00 for a two year license. Our board, probably like many other states is supported by another licensing board so they share office space and staff to keep costs down.

I'm not sure how many inspectors there are left her in NH but I know the numbers have decreased significantly in the last two years. Our state is in the same boat, not bankrupt but struggling, so it will be interesting to see if the $200.00 is enough to fund it. If not, I guess they can go up on the cigarette tax!!

[Carla Horne]

Hey Pete,
are you burried in snow!?

we actually have the NH joint board of licensure and there are 9 professions under that board.
The fees have not yet been established.
the bill in Kansas will probably not become a law by the sounds of it.
Carla

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by chorne

Hey Pete,
are you burried in snow!?

we actually have the NH joint board of licensure and there are 9 professions under that board.
The fees have not yet been established.
the bill in Kansas will probably not become a law by the sounds of it.
Carla

Yes I am buried and have had enough. I thought at the last meeting there was mention of charging $200.00 for the first term to see how much it would actually cost to run the board and then adjust it from there

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Gary -

I didn't realize that, but I checked and you're right. There are only 8 counties in Kansas with over 60,000 population according to the last census.

Douglas County - Lawrence
Johnson County - Overland Park, Lenexa, Olathe, Shawnee, etc
Leavenworth County - Leavenworth & Ft Leavenworth
Reno County - Hutchinson
Riley County - Manhattan, Junction City & Ft. Riley
Sedgewick County - Wichita
Shawnee County - Topeka
Wyandotte County - Kansas City, KS


That means that 93 Counties DON't go into licensing until 2011. Whow, ain't that gonna be expensive FOR somebody.

What did Senator Wysong say when you provided him with this information?

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Quote Carla Horn:
Hey Pete,
are you burried in snow!?

we actually have the NH joint board of licensure and there are 9 professions under that board.
The fees have not yet been established.
the bill in Kansas will probably not become a law by the sounds of it.
Carla
End Quote:

Originally Posted by prussell

Yes I am buried and have had enough. I thought at the last meeting there was mention of charging $200.00 for the first term to see how much it would actually cost to run the board and then adjust it from there

Hi Pete & Carla,
I am studying for the intensive and technically difficult New England Pest Management Association two day course {March 5th & 6th} so I will not be able to respond to any comments until Late Friday or Saturday but..... During the last New Hampshire Home Inspector's Licensing board meeting the question of having sufficient funds to "finance" the H.I. portion of the board came up.

If you will recall the following member of the “Fake ASHI Coalition”

Daryl Justham
Rochester
Home Inspector
Term: December 18, 2009

stated that "We could charge $600.00 per license! This statement almost catapulted me out of my chair! Since “The Public” could only observe and NOT speak I had to bite my tongue!

The State of New Hampshire is operating at a loss! Our State deficit is in the tens of millions of dollars!

Manchester {Our largest city} is on the verge of bankruptcy and has had to lay off city workers, and workers from our public schools. MANY of our cities and small towns are being forced to lay off city workers and are having to cut back or eliminate services to our citizens!


Carla,
I do want to make one thing perfectly clear. YOU showed a lot of good old “Common Sense” at this meeting. YOU were Professional, courteous, and most of all…. You spoke up when you saw something that needed to be addressed.

I THANK YOU for that!

I am enclosing a photo of when the Gov. signed this ASHI written bill.

As you can see the ONLY inspectors at this signing are the ones who wrote and pushed this bill through.

Who are they?

ALL ASHI!

From left to right….
Bill Gabler, coalition lobbyist;

David Roth, coalition president/ASHI member{CURRENT ASHI Vice President} ;

Rep. Angela Kopka; Sen. Jackie Cilley, the bill’s sponsor;

Joseph Bates, coalition legislative chair/ASHI member {Former ASHI NNEC President} ;

and Robert MacDonald, coalition member/NNEC CURRENT-ASHI president.