Not Certified in Kansas - Not on Their List

[Kenny Rigler]

I'm an inspector in Kansas and have been pondering for several months now whether I was going to apply for certification according to the new laws. I certainly lean toward James Bushart's views on the matter and would agree that this would be a just case for civil disobedience. That was further confirmed with NACHI's currently issued position statement supporting an inspector choosing to not abide to the laws.

But the decision really hit home today when one of the local realtors informed me of the following:

"The Kansas Real Estate Commission is requiring that as of Jan 1, all licensed real estate brokers must keep a copy of the license document on file for every person they put on their list. So the list that we give out to the customer with the names of available inspectors, cannot include your name unless we have a copy of your state license."

They said they were putting together a formal letter and would be sending it to all inspectors sometime in the next month. Unfortunately, in this rural area, the majority of business comes through realtor referrals. So if I don't certify with the state, I won't be business. So what's a Kansas inspector suppose to do?

[James E. Braun, CMI]

I bet they never kept certifications of inspectors on file before. Most inspector certifications will be higher than what a state is going to require for a license. Now they are concerned about who they refer. Simply Amazing!

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Kenny,

See NACHI Code of Ethics #10. Civil disobedience is one thing, but the cost of your NACHI membership, is another item to consider.

[Gary L. Farnsworth, CMI]

I bet they do not do this for termite inspectors. They should, or face conflicts. Agents already are being told not to give out lists of inspectors here. I suggest you put your city/state on your NACHI heading to see what city you are from; it may make a difference. RE's are just trying to put us all under their thumb; and they are being successful. I suggest you come to the hearing in Topeka on Nov. 6th at 1:00 in the basement of the Docking building to voice your displeasure; bring proof.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

Kenny,

See NACHI Code of Ethics #10. Civil disobedience is one thing, but the cost of your NACHI membership, is another item to consider.

I believe the chairman of the Ethics Committee waived this ethics violation about a month or so ago when dealing with this crappy law. From what I understand the Kansas NACHI inspectors can rumble against this law without fear from being removed from our organization.

[James H. Bushart]

The licensing board has published "rules" that contradict an inspector's right against self incrimination.

According to them, if they suspect you of a violation...and you do not honor their demand for copies of ALL of your files to include all of your inspections, advertising, etc for them to review (and collect evidence against you)....they can revoke your registration.

In the real world, a licensing board would be required to gather its evidence and review it to determine if there was a reason for action against you ... before confronting you. Then, at that point, you would have the opportunity to review this evidence and then present your side of the story with your own evidence to refute the charges.

But Kansas is the home of Oz, where the almighty wizard (now disguised as a HI licensing board) hides behind a curtain while projecting an image of smoke and fire.

Rightfully, while NACHI is not encouraging or otherwise sanctioning the violation of any laws...will NOT consider it as a violation of its code of ethics for an inspector to refuse to incriminate himself if confronted by the Kansas licensing board.

We are all individually responsible and accountable for our individual personal choices and decisions.

[Gary L. Farnsworth, CMI]

I think there will be major rumblings this next Kansas session by agents and the KAR. Laws should be implemented to give teeth to some of the things agents, brokers, and lenders do; make the seller's disclosure part of the transaction; any discrepencies are the fault of the agent/seller. License everyone who is involved in the RE transaction; EVERYONE. Radon, termite will all be required; perhaps pre-sale inspections performed before the home is marketed. Kansas has no money, and is concerned for lawsuits as is happening in most other states. Brokers, agents all also should be responsible for their duties to the home buyer.

I hope Kansas lawmakers and board members monitor this message board. Wake up, and serve the customer; not your own pockets and special interests.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

I'm curious about something.

You can do 2 components and not need a HI license under this law.

SO if the KS Real Estate Commission or LOCAL agents or BROKERS refuse to put your name ON lists is there possibly a BIG $$$$$$$$ lawsuit for inspectors on grounds LIKE restraint of trade OR ....................

[James H. Bushart]

I think it would behoove the inspectors of Kansas to begin a statewide campaign to discredit "lists" where Kansas used house salespeople try to dupe an unsuspecting public into using their favored, soft-report writing inspectors.

Make it a point...whether you participate with the state registration or not....to ensure that your name appears on no "list" for realtors.

In other words...instead of being rejected by them....reject them, instead.

Begin your advertising with "Due to my ethical commitment to serve my client and NOT to try to help the local agents sell houses, you will never find my name on a referral list provided by those who will not make a dime unless you buy the house. I work for the buyer...not his agent." or....."If you want to know what your agent wants you to know about the house, use an inspector from his list. If you want to know the REAL condition of the house, call me."

The public needs to be informed that the majority of defects in the homes have to do with the Kansas Assoc of Realtors and the Missouri Assoc of Realtors using money to fight legislation that would establish minimum basic building standards and certifications for contractors. Then they want to sell these inferior houses at top dollar....and want to tell YOU, the public, who should inspect it for you. Does this make sense?

[Dale Duffy]

Jim said:

Begin your advertising with "Due to my ethical commitment to serve my client and NOT to try to help the local agents sell houses, you will never find my name on a referral list provided by those who will not make a dime unless you buy the house. I work for the buyer...not his agent." or....."If you want to know what your agent wants you to know about the house, use an inspector from his list. If you want to know the REAL condition of the house, call me."

Very Nice...that is exactly what I would have on my websites as well, good for you Jim...!

Every Inspector (Who is ethical) should have the same "Mention Above" as the "Caption" on their "Home Page"

This is absolutely incredible in my opinion, the regulations they are considering are conscienceless unimaginable...if those are words--

[James H. Bushart]

If these so called "lists" were legitimate, they would be obtained from the licensing board and would include ALL licensed inspectors with their phone numbers.

Legitimacy, however, eludes the used house salesman who wants to filter the list and provide the unsuspecting home buyer with the names of those who he thinks will help him to sell a house.

Another reason this list is flawed has to do with the fact that an inspector can provide a copy of his registration....a week, month or year after revocation. Verification from the inspector that he has a license is absolutely meaningless. How many divorced people can "prove" they are married by digging out an old marriage certificate? Does a birth certificate prove that you are alive, today? If the salesman wanted to verify registration or licensure status, he would do it through the board...not the inspector. But he knows that.

It's all a Kansas used house salesman ruse to trick the public.

Stay off of these lists. Warn the public about them with all of your advertising. When you get your written request, send it back with a love note...expressing your intention to avoid the public perception of teaming with that office in their efforts to sell a house.

[Gary L. Farnsworth, CMI]

Good thought. How is the state, and the home inspection board, going to enforce and police it's own policies? Are they going to rely on the real estate agents and/or office brokers?

There are dozens of termite inspectors that are not registered. They hide under the guize of thier company, who is the one that is registered. All termite inspectors should be registered to do termite inspections under their own number. There is only one person in the Department of Agriculture to police termite inspectors for the whole state of Kansas; an impossible job.

Now, home inspectors, under state law, can do home inspections not under any state law, rule, or regulation. All they have to do is perform the home inspection, have their registered "boss" sign the forms, and be legal. I can see a home inspection boss not doing any home inspections. Just let his employees do them, he signs the forms, and then takes the checks to the bank.

[Kenny Rigler]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

Kenny,

See NACHI Code of Ethics #10. Civil disobedience is one thing, but the cost of your NACHI membership, is another item to consider.

Stephen-

Refer to this forum for the NACHI exception that I referred to on this issue:

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f14/kansa...ination-43450/

[Kenny Rigler]

But at what point does it come down to the simple fact that a law is a law. I didn't write it and I'm pretty sure a majority of the realtors in my area didn't write it either. But for better or worse, the legislators passed it, enacted it, and in two months it goes into effect.

And my point in saying it that way is it would make sense to me that the next industry to follow suit will be the lenders. A good percentage of my business comes from lenders requiring their buyers to get a home inspection. The lenders didn't write the law and most of them I'm sure don't know all the flaws of it and probably don't care. But what they do know is there is a law that says home inspectors in Kansas have to be licensed and it would make sense to me if they were requiring their buyers to get an inspection they would also add that it has to be from a licensed inspector. Just like I'm sure whoever their buyer's use for insurance, probably have to be licensed or certified according to the laws of the state.

So sure, I can stand against the realtor's list and do the things on this post that have been suggested, but how do I fight that one and still manage to stay in business?

[Gary L. Farnsworth, CMI]

I will try to simplifiy.

RE's, KAR, special interest groups pushed, and got, home inspection licensing in Kansas. Laws, rules, and regulations will make home inspections basic, and cheap in everyway. IE: kitchen-type appliances will no longer be inspected, representitive number of windows, doors, outlets, switches, etc. They want this, so their lists will contain licensed home inspectors, who will write basic/soft reports, so the buyer is not alarmed, and will purchase the home, so the agents, brokers, companies all make money. Inspectors have to have large amounts of insurance. Why? So after the buyer moves in and finds defects, they sue us. The consumers will then not understand why inspections are basic, and will turn to the board and the state. This has been done in many other states, one in particular is Texas. Check out their lawsuits.

So, agents have the best of all worlds to benefit them, and only them. Board members are blind to this, or payed off by others to not complain. All in all this is why there is an agent and attorney on the board. The attorneys are the ones who will benefit big time, as they are actually creating laws, rules, regulations to creat lawsuits, so they also can make money. This is at best the legal definition of extortion, a vicious circle, and is in no possible way better for our industry as a whole.

The board will set rules, regulations, and educational requirements that will put many home inspectors out of business anyway (non-ASHI), and will most likely force us to use certain forms and reports eventually. With the economy and home sales where they are, we are all mostly out of business anyway. Dan and I are the only two operating CMI's in Kansas, and between the two of us, have had only a handfull of inspections so far this month. Both of us may be over-qualified to do home inspections in Kansas under the new laws. Again, agents want basic inspections, and us veterans out and away from their "system".