Pa Hb 1805

[John Bowman]

The General Assembly of Pennsylvania House Bill No. 1805 is scheduled to be heard during the 2007 Session.

Past NACHI President Joe Hagarty and I are scheduled to address the Committee on Professional Licensure on September 18th.

Please review and either comment here or forward me an email with your comments. All comments are welcome. Email

See pdf file of bill at http://www.nhiti.org/index.php?pr=PA_HB1805

Thanks,

John b.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jbowman

All comments are welcome.
John b.

In what capacity are you addressing that body, John?

[Erby Crofutt]

I hope you're going to recommend cutting out this requirement!

(6) The applicant is a member in good standing of a board-approved national home inspection association.

And this:

Section 506. Professional liability insurance.
(a) Requirement.--A licensed home inspector shall maintain insurance against errors and omissions in the performance of a home inspection...

[tdietrich1]

Erby,

Both are current requirements. Current law defines what is 'recognized' and E&O ins requirements. Just now they want a board 'middle-man' program.

tom

[Joe Farsetta]

The problem is with "board aproved". THis cannot stand, especially in light of years of fighting with NAHI and PHIC.

Also, the board should be advisory only, with no special authority. Just like in NY.

[tdietrich1]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

The problem is with "board aproved". THis cannot stand, especially in light of years of fighting with NAHI and PHIC.

Also, the board should be advisory only, with no special authority. Just like in NY.

ditto

Since there are examples of currently working programs that don't need a dictatorship empowered to protect the public. Like Pa's current program to license pesticide applicators, UCC certified code inspectors, even registered nurses. Their models might be a better way to administrate home inspectors.

tom

[Blaine Wiley]

Half of this bill is used to describe the board and its duties and powers. If there is going to be a board, as Joe said it should be advisory only, and should be made up of one memeber of each qualifying national association. PHIC should have no part in the process, especially in light of the poison they have put in the water in PA.

Otherwise, it looks like the same old tired legislation we see in most other states.

[Scott Gilligan, CMI]

I have some major issues with the requirements for licensure the way this bill is worded.

(a) Applicants.--An applicant shall be considered to be
qualified for a license if the applicant submits proof
satisfactory to the board of all of the following:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) The applicant is at least 18 years of age.
(3) The applicant has a high school diploma or its equivalent.
(4) The applicant has completed a board-approved training program or course of study involving the performance of home inspections which shall be no less than 120 hours of instruction and includes not less than 40 hours of actual in-field training.
(5) The applicant has passed a board-approved examination.
(6) The applicant is a member in good standing of a board-approved national home inspection association.
(7) The application is accompanied by the application fee as established by the board by regulation.
( The applicant is not addicted to the habitual use of alcohol, narcotics or other habit-forming drugs.
(9) The following apply:
(i) The applicant has not been convicted of a felony under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L.233, No.64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or of an offense under the laws of another jurisdiction which if committed in this Commonwealth would be a felony under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, unless the following apply:
(A) At least ten years have elapsed from the date of conviction.
(B) The applicant satisfactorily demonstrates to the board that the applicant has made significant progress in personal rehabilitation since the conviction and that licensure of the applicant should not be expected to create a substantial risk of harm to the public or a substantial risk of further criminal violations.
(C) The applicant otherwise satisfies the qualifications required under this act.
(ii) As used in this paragraph, the term convicted includes a judgment, admission of guilt or a plea of nolo contendere, or receiving probation without verdict, disposition in lieu of trial or an accelerated rehabilitative disposition of the disposition of felony charges.

(b) Existing practitioners.--The board shall issue a license to an applicant who applies within two years of the effective date of this subsection, complies with all of the following:
(1) Is an active professional home inspector.
(2) Meets the qualifications described in subsection (a)(1), (2), (3), (6), (7) and (.
(3) Complies with one of the following:
(i) The applicant submits proof satisfactory to the board that the applicant has:
(A) been in active, continuous practice for at least five years immediately preceding the effective date of this section; or
(B) completed 120 hours of instruction in home inspection and related subjects.

OK...Now for my rant!

I strongly disagree with the requirement that to obtain a license in Pennsylvania that someone MUST complete a board recognized training program and complete 40 hours of in field training. The way I see it, this is basically the same thing PHIC is trying to accomplish with their pocket gouging scam the refer to as their RAMP program. I can see it already creating a bigger monster than what we currently have in this state. Granted, it will take the wind out of the sails for PHIC trying to claim that they are a consumer watchdog group. However, I see it opening a door for them to try to capitalize on their RAMP program. The 40 hours of in-field training are basically forcing someone to do ride alongs, which we all know in this state means you pay another inspector to ride along on his inspections and don't make a cent off of it.

I am a little leary about what is going to be considered a board approved training program. I can see if this isn't clearly specified that there are going to be a lot of PHIC members opening up home inspection schools here in Pennsylvania. Since the Pennsylvania Home Inspector Coalition will pretty much be a useless name, they will probably just change it to Pennsylvania Home Inspector Colleges to still make money off of new inspectors. I'm sure when this bill was written that it's intent was to completely remove the misconception that PHIC has any ounce of power in this state. However, If this passes as it is worded, it's going to give PHIC a bigger oppertunity to make money off of new home inspectors.

The other thing that has me a little confused is the requirement for existing home inspectors to become licensed. Assuming this passes as worded, How can they possibly ask someone who has not yet been in business for 5 years to go back to school? So, if you have been in business for 4 years and have done 100's of inspections, this is going to require that you enroll is some board approved training course that you could probably teach better than the instructor? That just doesn't seem right to me. Here's a real kick in the balls if this applies to anyone. Suppose you reach your CMI designation in 4 years. The requirements for an existing home inspector would require that you must have 120 hours of training. Whoever thought of these requirements obviously is not in the business.

On a lighter note:

( The applicant is not addicted to the habitual use of alcohol, narcotics or other habit-forming drugs.

I think Pennsylvania is taking their smoking ban just a little too far!!!

[tdietrich1]

Scott start an online petition.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Thomas & Scott,

Your input is acknowledged and welcomed.

[John Bowman]

Posted for your enjoyment.

Here is the agenda for theHouse Professional Licensure Committee hearing on the attached HB 1805 on Tuesday, September 18, 2007, at 10:00 a.m. in 60 East Wing, Harrisburg:

10:00 a.m. Welcome and Opening Remarks by Republican Chairman Bill Adolph
10:10 a.m. Lisa Ogden, Home Inspection Consumer
10:25 a.m. Ellen Renish, Chair of the Business Issues Subcommittee, Pennsylvania Association of Realtors
10:40 a.m. Panel from Pennsylvania Home Inspectors Coalition (PHIC): Curtis Niles, President; Joe Kelly, Secretary; and Jack Milne, Founder and Past
President
10:55 a.m. J.R. Burke, Director of Government Affairs, National Association of Home Inspectors (NAHI)
11:10 a.m. Panel from National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (NACHI): Joseph Hagarty, Member, and John Bowman, Executive Director
11:25 a.m. Noel Zak, CAE, Executive Director, National Home Inspector Examination
11:40 a.m. Brendan Ryan, Member of Board of Directors, American Society of Home Inspectors (ASHI)
11:55 a.m. Closing Remarks



Please bring 40 copies of your testimony to the hearing.

[Scott Gilligan, CMI]

Originally Posted by jbowman

Posted for your enjoyment.

Here is the agenda for theHouse Professional Licensure Committee hearing on the attached HB 1805 on Tuesday, September 18, 2007, at 10:00 a.m. in 60 East Wing, Harrisburg:

10:00 a.m. Welcome and Opening Remarks by Republican Chairman Bill Adolph
10:10 a.m. Lisa Ogden, Home Inspection Consumer
10:25 a.m. Ellen Renish, Chair of the Business Issues Subcommittee, Pennsylvania Association of Realtors
10:40 a.m. Panel from Pennsylvania Home Inspectors Coalition (PHIC): Curtis Niles, President; Joe Kelly, Secretary; and Jack Milne, Founder and Past
President
10:55 a.m. J.R. Burke, Director of Government Affairs, National Association of Home Inspectors (NAHI)
11:10 a.m. Panel from National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (NACHI): Joseph Hagarty, Member, and John Bowman, Executive Director
11:25 a.m. Noel Zak, CAE, Executive Director, National Home Inspector Examination
11:40 a.m. Brendan Ryan, Member of Board of Directors, American Society of Home Inspectors (ASHI)
11:55 a.m. Closing Remarks



Please bring 40 copies of your testimony to the hearing.

Why the hell are they even invited to this? They are not a real home inspection association and they do not allow NACHI members. Their membership is comprised mostly of ASHI and NAHI. This means that those asociations will have more representation than NACHI will. Hell, if that's going to be the case, IAC2 and CMI should be invited to see what organization can stack the deck more. PHIC is not a recognized association and should have absolutely no say or even be invited!!!

[jmichalski]

PHIC and its members/leaders are all PA home inspectors, as far as I am aware, and that alone menas that they have a collective voice which will be impacted by the law. They have as much right to speak as anyone.

I guess that by "recognized assocaition" you mean that they do not qualify as a national association under PA law, and that is accurate - however, they do not purport to be such.

Also, I am not aware of InterNACHI members being denied membership, but I haven't really followed it much to know.

FWIW, if the new law (assuming it is passed) would define in specific and unamiguous terms what a "nationally recognized" exam is, and would replace the word "supervised" with "direct physical supervision" in regards to a full member overseeing the inspection of an inspector who is not a full member (or specifically allow signing off without any direct physical supervision), that would go along way to ending many debates and conflict that seems to arise as a result.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by sgilligan1

Why the hell are they even invited to this? They are not a real home inspection association and they do not allow NACHI members. Their membership is comprised mostly of ASHI and NAHI. This means that those asociations will have more representation than NACHI will. Hell, if that's going to be the case, IAC2 and CMI should be invited to see what organization can stack the deck more. PHIC is not a recognized association and should have absolutely no say or even be invited!!!

I think a close examination of behind-the-scenes activities in PA would reveal that PHIC is the lobbying group behind this legislation which seems to have been written with them in mind. This is their means of legislating themselves into significance.

ASHI and NAHI have formed similar "coalitions" in other states for this exact same purpose. The key in defeating them in the other states has been to reveal...early and loud....that the "coalition" is an illusion. These fellas are no more of a "coalition" representing the interest of all home inspectors and all consumers than Bowman and Hagarty.

When you find a "coalition" tumor beginning to grow in your state, kill it before it takes hold.

In PA, some made the "business decision" to appease them and go along with their demands. All this did was legitimize them in the eyes of the PA real estate community. Now, with the aid of the Pennsylvania Association of Realtors and their political lobbyists, PHIC has spread into the PA legislature.

It may be too late for a total cure, but this disease needs to get under control...and fast.

[dkeogh]

Actually, not all the PHIC members like the bill in its entirety. Curtis Niles (who by the way is a very good man and a friend of mine) spoke to me several months ago about the bill and he expressed his disapproval of some of the components of the bill. It looks like there will be a good representation of the different points of view regarding licensing at this hearing.
Remember that the sponsors of the bill are more interested in protecting the consumer then settling scores between HI associations. Infighting amongst HI’s at hearings like this only diminishes the HI profession in the eyes of our legislators.