Release and Hold Harmless Agreement (for turning on utilities).

[Nick Gromicko]

Although the form says "utilities," I think we're mostly talking about water. If the electricity is off it is usually because the electric company pulled the meter, and so we can't get the electricity on anyway.

With the number of bank-owned vacant properties for sale in certain areas of the country, I don't see how we're going to avoid at least turning on the water which is often only turned off from the house only (not the street). Hence: http://www.nachi.org/winterization-agreement.htm

[Mark Nahrgang]

Just got my first one back signed by the listing agent of a bank owned property. I was told the utilities are on for Friday's inspection. The sellers agent (who set up the inspection for his out of state client) sounded like it was a great idea.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Although the form says "utilities," I think we're mostly talking about water. If the electricity is off it is usually because the electric company pulled the meter, and so we can't get the electricity on anyway.

With the number of bank-owned vacant properties for sale in certain areas of the country, I don't see how we're going to avoid at least turning on the water which is often only turned off from the house only (not the street). Hence: http://www.nachi.org/winterization-agreement.htm

Once again....if the realtor has the authority that is implied by his/her signature on a waiver...they have the authority to turn the valve.

What happens if they don't? I charge an additional fee to return and finish my inspection when someone of authority turns the valve.

What is the benefit of doing this any other way? I'm not seeing it.

[Mark Nahrgang]

Originally Posted by jbushart

...
What is the benefit of doing this any other way? I'm not seeing it.

See post 8...

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

See post 8...

What post 8 illustrates...to me...is that the seller's agent did not want the liability and, as we all know...there was some desperate schmuck willing to agree to anything to get an inspection. This agent knew his phone number. As many of us know (except for the schmucks), not every agent referral is a compliment.

Chances are good that, given the choice of signing your waiver or calling the schmuck, your agent would have still called the schmuck and avoided the implied acceptance of liability.

[Mark Nahrgang]

Originally Posted by jbushart

What post 8 illustrates...to me...is that the seller's agent did not want the liability and, as we all know...there was some desperate schmuck willing to agree to anything to get an inspection. This agent knew his phone number. As many of us know (except for the schmucks), not every agent referral is a compliment.

Chances are good that, given the choice of signing your waiver or calling the schmuck, your agent would have still called the schmuck and avoided the implied acceptance of liability.

Actually I know the agent, and she would have had the sellers agent sign it. The sellers agent gave permission for them to turn on the utilities, and as the agent today did, would have signed it too. And even if they didn't, then that would have likely been enough to end the discussion without going elsewhere.

I'm not going to take the liability for it, but I can't afford to loose business either.

[Joe Farsetta]

In reality, the sellers agent MAY NOT have the authority to turn on utilities. Period. End of Report.

For instance, I recently performed a foreclosure nspection on a home where all utilities have been turned off. And, I beg to differ with my friend, Nick; most times the water is turned off at the street and the meter removed.

But... getting back to this inspection. There were signs throughout the home warning anyone who wanted the utilities activated that they must contact sme cmpany. An 800 number was provided.

The seller's agent (the banks rep) was POWERLESS to activate the utilities as a TERM OF HER CONTRAC WITH THE BANK.

So, you say that if she authorizes you to trn on the utilities, and signs some form, that you are off the hook? Possibly not.

This is especially true as we, as professional inspectors, should try and ensure that the realtor does indeed have authority. In my case, with tose warning signs posted all over the place, I was smart enough to question her authority, and found out that she had NO such authority.

Something to think about...

[Nick Gromicko]

One of the reasons the water company doesn't normally rush to turn the water off at the street (for non-payment for instance) is that most water companies are public authorities (not private companies like electric companies) and so the water bill (unlike the electric bill) is a lien against the home (not just a collection against the account).

The water company will eventually collect every penny, regardless of who used the water, and so they have no financial interest (unlike the electric company) to turn anything off at the street.

[Nick Gromicko]

... and that is why you'll find that most leases require the tenant to put the gas and electric in his/her name and pay the bill direct, but reimburse the landlord for the water and sewer (which are lienable obligations).

[Joe Farsetta]

is that most water companies are public authorities

No so in NY. Except for NY City, most water companies are private entities governed by the State Board of Public Utilities.

In the end, my BEST advice is to take NOTHING for granted!

What can be seen through this discussion is, despite loads of experience in differing scenarios, things can be different.

As I have stated countless times in my classes, the inspector needs to be knowledgeable with rules and customary practices in the AREAS THEY SERVE.

Ths discussion shows yet another asset of this org; that is the depth of knowledge and experience our members have.

[Bruce A. King]

The only thing that will truly work is to have every state modify the purchase offer agreement to include some version of this:

The seller is authorizing an inspection which means that some or all of the utilities may be turned on by an agent, the buyer(s) or the home inspector. The seller agrees that damages may occur during the inspection, after the inspection or during the next period of freezing temperatures and agrees to not present any claims or action against anyone.
If there is a reason that any of the utilities should not be turned on they must be listed here_________________. If any utilities are turned on that were shown here as needing to stay off, the listing agent will be held responsible for not tagging the device(s) or properly communicating this to other parties.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by bking

If any utilities are turned on that were shown here as needing to stay off, the listing agent will be held responsible for not tagging the device(s) or properly communicating this to other parties.

Because of this statement, it will never happen.

[Bruce A. King]

I know, I got carried away and added more than was necessary, pretty much standard operating practice for me.

[Joe Farsetta]

modify the purchase offer agreement

Here's the key.

The clause needs to be a part of the purchase agreement. In my neck of the woods, the contract is executed AFTER the inspection, which further complicates the matter.

But, this clause is EXCELLENT, and SHOULD be made a part of the offer or agreement, and executed by the agent and owner.