Should a warranty managment company be HI licensed?

[kpierce]

Just out of curiosity (I haven't read the entire law), is a home inspection, in the WA state law, defined as being part of a real estate transaction?

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by kpierce

Just out of curiosity (I haven't read the entire law), is a home inspection, in the WA state law, defined as being part of a real estate transaction?

No. RCW 18.280.010

(5) "Home inspection" means a professional examination of the current condition of a house.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

No. RCW 18.280.010

(5) "Home inspection" means a professional examination of the current condition of a house.

What do you think Stephen? Should a quality control sub contractor of a builder be required to get an HI license?

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

I know what you are doing and don't have a problem with any of it. It is the wording that you used that leaves room for them to interpret it as something a home inspector would do.

Contact Stephen Cancler on the Board. He is on your side, as is Steven Smith.

[pdoane]

Kevin, I think (and Im only speculating) you would have to stay within the builder subcontractor relationship. When you start working for or with a buyer or home owner. (i.e. who is paying you) and looking to "identify" conditions you become a home inspector.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

I know what you are doing and don't have a problem with any of it. It is the wording that you used that leaves room for them to interpret it as something a home inspector would do.

Contact Stephen Cancler on the Board. He is on your side, as is Steven Smith.

Did you read post 21? We offer a quality control service as well.

[kpierce]

Here's the next thought: If the state rules that my "Construction Completion Verification" is considered a home inspection, I would not only be required to get a license but would also be required to write a SOP report for every verification. The state would be forcing me to perform a home inspection when that's not the service I offer. I don't go into the crawl, attic or on the roof. That would be unreal. It should be interesting to hear their opinion.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by pdoane

Kevin, I think (and Im only speculating) you would have to stay within the builder subcontractor relationship. When you start working for or with a buyer or home owner. (i.e. who is paying you) and looking to "identify" conditions you become a home inspector.

I agree. We only work as a sub for builders.

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

I would highly suggest you attend the Business Practice Committee meeting where this will be discussed.

Last I heard, it was planned at Third Place Books in Lake Forest Park on November 10th. They were leaning towards a morning meeting. Keep checking the DOL Home Inspectors website for the confirmed time and
place.

The first two bullet points in that section of your services is what was giving them cause for discussion. That is why the Oregon law was brought up in regards to how many items in the SOP can be inspected before it becomes a full home inspection.

If I remember correctly, the discussion among the Board was if you were an employee of the builder, that is part of the construction of the home. If you were a sub-contractor, you would be hired just like other licensed trades to perform a service. There is the rub.

I think it's the wording.

[kpierce]

Yeah, that won't happen, I'm already booked on the 10th. Hopefully they'll have minutes. Either way I'm sure someone will let me know if they think I'm breaking the rules.

[Mike O'Handley]

Kevin,

Don't start freaking out; I'm not out to get you or to screw you over like some would that have responded to this thread would have you believe.

In 2001, after I sold my franchise and went independent, I incorporated under the name Kenmore Residential Services. Besides my home inspection company, I've had other business models under that umbrella and for years I've been interested in expanding the non-home inspection aspect of the company into other areas - one of those areas is warranty management.

Perhaps those who attended and then contacted you failed to hear me remark that I wouldn't mind getting into that business myself, but that I wanted to make sure I wasn't crossing the line (or some such). Listen to the tape; it should be there.

Being a board member, I can't simply go out and hang out my shingle until I've made absolutely certain that the two models don't conflict under the RCW; or I'm liable to find myself under investigation by my own board, when some inspector, unhappy with present circumstances decides to complain to DOL about it.

If I do it, I won't be doing it in person for long - I'd plan to hire and train one or two folks to do the warranty management aspect and I really need to know whether they'll need to be licensed as home inspectors, or I can just hire whoever I think can learn the job and will be good at it without the cost and time issues involved in getting licensed as an inspector.

Unlike the other board member who is already doing it, I don't think I have the right to unilaterally decide that there is no overlap; or that, if there is overlap that it doesn't rise to the level of a home inspection. That's for the board to decide and why I brought it to the board and shared the redacted example from the internet.

Stephen is right, there is some language in there which makes it sound, on the surface, like the process is similar to a home inspection and that's the kind of confusion that we don't want to have. The simple fact that at least one board member thinks there is overlap, concerns me; however, I think it can be worked out in committee - I just needed the Chairman to assign it to my sub-committee so that we could "officially" discuss it and get the question resolved.

I haven't decided where I'll hold the meeting on November 10th yet, but once it's been announced I urge you to attend so that we can get some better insight into the practice. For anyone else that's here in Washington State that thinks that it does cross over into the realm of a home inspection, we'd like to hear your view as well.

I think that, at the very least, it might be necessary for the board to establish a clear delineation between what this is and what a home inspection is, and maybe to even publish some kind of notice for consumers to understand the difference, so that consumers don't make the same mistake that many FHA and VA purchasers used to make -assume that it constitutes a home inspection - and then forego an inspection.

So, now that we've cleared that up, is there anyone out there that thinks that doing a home inspection for a buyer who's involved with a relo company managing the relocation doesn't rise to the level of a full home inspection and should be treated differently? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that as well, because that subject will also be considered by my sub-committee.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley, LHI
Your Inspector LLC.
Kenmore, Washington
Email: hausdok@MSN.com
Wa. Lic. Home Inspector #202

[Gary L. Farnsworth, CMI]

Licensing solves nothing. It only creates havoc in every state, countless lawsuits, and mass confusion in our industry.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by Mike O'Handley

Kevin,

Don't start freaking out; I'm not out to get you or to screw you over like some would that have responded to this thread would have you believe.

In 2001, after I sold my franchise and went independent, I incorporated under the name Kenmore Residential Services. Besides my home inspection company, I've had other business models under that umbrella and for years I've been interested in expanding the non-home inspection aspect of the company into other areas - one of those areas is warranty management.

Perhaps those who attended and then contacted you failed to hear me remark that I wouldn't mind getting into that business myself, but that I wanted to make sure I wasn't crossing the line (or some such). Listen to the tape; it should be there.

Being a board member, I can't simply go out and hang out my shingle until I've made absolutely certain that the two models don't conflict under the RCW; or I'm liable to find myself under investigation by my own board, when some inspector, unhappy with present circumstances decides to complain to DOL about it.

If I do it, I won't be doing it in person for long - I'd plan to hire and train one or two folks to do the warranty management aspect and I really need to know whether they'll need to be licensed as home inspectors, or I can just hire whoever I think can learn the job and will be good at it without the cost and time issues involved in getting licensed as an inspector.

Unlike the other board member who is already doing it, I don't think I have the right to unilaterally decide that there is no overlap; or that, if there is overlap that it doesn't rise to the level of a home inspection. That's for the board to decide and why I brought it to the board and shared the redacted example from the internet.

Stephen is right, there is some language in there which makes it sound, on the surface, like the process is similar to a home inspection and that's the kind of confusion that we don't want to have. The simple fact that at least one board member thinks there is overlap, concerns me; however, I think it can be worked out in committee - I just needed the Chairman to assign it to my sub-committee so that we could "officially" discuss it and get the question resolved.

I haven't decided where I'll hold the meeting on November 10th yet, but once it's been announced I urge you to attend so that we can get some better insight into the practice. For anyone else that's here in Washington State that thinks that it does cross over into the realm of a home inspection, we'd like to hear your view as well.

I think that, at the very least, it might be necessary for the board to establish a clear delineation between what this is and what a home inspection is, and maybe to even publish some kind of notice for consumers to understand the difference, so that consumers don't make the same mistake that many FHA and VA purchasers used to make -assume that it constitutes a home inspection - and then forego an inspection.

So, now that we've cleared that up, is there anyone out there that thinks that doing a home inspection for a buyer who's involved with a relo company managing the relocation doesn't rise to the level of a full home inspection and should be treated differently? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that as well, because that subject will also be considered by my sub-committee.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley, LHI
Your Inspector LLC.
Kenmore, Washington
Email: hausdok@MSN.com
Wa. Lic. Home Inspector #202

Thanks for responding Mike. I'd be more than happy to attend the meeting on November 10th, however, it'd have to be late in the day as I'm already booked in the morning. If you have any say as to what time of day it is, I'd request it for later.

I think I've made myself clear already but I'd like to make a clear distinction between the services I offer. There still seems to be a bit of confusion. Maybe if I'm unable to attend the meeting, you can print this post out and bring it to the meeting like you did my ActiveRain profile.

I offer three different services to home builders:

1. Warranty Management-This service has absolutely nothing to do with home inspecting. The builder carries a defined, one-year limited warranty and all we're doing is taking claims from homeowner's and sending them out to the appropriate sub-contractor for repair. No inspecting involved, just verifying that the problem that the homeowner is claiming is actually a problem and is covered under the terms of the warranty. Again, we aren't identifying anything, the homeowner is.

2. Pre-closing walk through/New home orientation-We walk the homebuyer through the home explaining how components work and introduce them to our company and how to make a warranty claim. The homebuyer is given a chance to point out cosmetic or mechanical deficiencies and we record them and communicate them to the builder. No inspecting involved on our part, the homebuyer is pointing problems out and reporting them to us. I think most here are fully aware of what a builder walk through is.

3. Construction completion verification-This is where the verbiage came from that you noted from my ActiveRain profile. It's a completely different services than what's noted above. Basically, we go in to the home after the builder/GC has finished their construction punch and write a list identifying any problems that still exist that the builder needs to fix prior to the new home orientation. This is not a home inspection. We're simply acting as a quality control sub contractor for the builder. We don't go in the crawl, attic or on the roof and most of the items noted are cosmetic damage (not a part of the WA state SOP).

As mentioned previously, and if you really want to split hairs, I understand the very fine line when simply reading the verbiage on my site. However, there's no consumer involved at this point (no one to "protect" for those that fly that flag) and no one other that the builder is relying on the information we provide, ie. lenders, insurance companies. We're simply creating a "punch list" for the builder so he knows what needs to be done prior to delivery. It can act as either an "in-house" quality control service for a builder or as a 3rd party quality control between a developer and GC.

[hmiller]

Originally Posted by Mike O'Handley

Kevin,


So, now that we've cleared that up, is there anyone out there that thinks that doing a home inspection for a buyer who's involved with a relo company managing the relocation doesn't rise to the level of a full home inspection and should be treated differently? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that as well, because that subject will also be considered by my sub-committee.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley, LHI
Your Inspector LLC.
Kenmore, Washington
Email: hausdok@MSN.com
Wa. Lic. Home Inspector #202

Hey if I was the buyer coming in to purchase a relo house, and they handed me a copy of a home inspection saying, everything is great....I would hope it was done to the same standard of care required by licensed home inspectors.

Reality is I have worked with many home buyers purchasing relo homes, and they are baffled at all the stuff the "relo inspection" missed. Serious issues.

But you do get what you pay for...and relo inspections don't pay much- obviously...

On the subject of warranty mgmt. I really see no reason someone like Kevin should need a home inspector license for what he is doing. The clients have already bought the home, and now they are just trying to get things fixed by the builder. If I am perceiving what is going on properly.

"Whining about Licensing Solves Nothing"

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by hmiller

On the subject of warranty mgmt. I really see no reason someone like Kevin should need a home inspector license for what he is doing. The clients have already bought the home, and now they are just trying to get things fixed by the builder. If I am perceiving what is going on properly.

I think the contention is with my quality control service rather than the warranty management. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind considering managing a warranty analogous to a home inspection.