Should a warranty managment company be HI licensed?

[Harold E. Miller]

Originally Posted by kpierce

I think the contention is with my quality control service rather than the warranty management. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind considering managing a warranty analogous to a home inspection.

I see....

Even though I don't understand why anyone would consider the QC services, the same as a home inspector.

Many larger construction firms have people that do the same function, and nobody would consider that they are doing the same job as a home inspector, not expect them to get any license.

Other construction firms have no one to really do QC, ....and that is possibly why the first new construction home I inspected today had no crawl space vents ...anywhere, a plumber modified I joist under the toilet -cut completely in half, and a leaking dishwasher....

There are many builders that could benefit from hiring a QC guy.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by hmiller

I see....

Even though I don't understand why anyone would consider the QC services, the same as a home inspector.

Many larger construction firms have people that do the same function, and nobody would consider that they are doing the same job as a home inspector, not expect them to get any license.

Other construction firms have no one to really do QC, ....and that is possibly why the first new construction home I inspected today had no crawl space vents ...anywhere, a plumber modified I joist under the toilet -cut completely in half, and a leaking dishwasher....

There are many builders that could benefit from hiring a QC guy.

Maybe you hit it on the head. More new construction QC=less need for home inspections.

Wow! This post only took 5 days to come through. Bravo mods!!

[kpierce]

Minutes are available. Still waiting on audio...

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by kpierce

Maybe you hit it on the head. More new construction QC=less need for home inspections.

Wow! This post only took 5 days to come through. Bravo mods!!

I think Harold may have touched on part of the issue. When a builder has someone on staff to perform quality control (inspect for defects in doors, equipment or other items that are included in the Home Inspector SOP) they are performing the work as the builder.

When the builder hires an outside contractor, the builder's company is no longer inspecting the items. If they hire an outside contractor to install the furnace / air conditioner, that outside contractor must be licensed in the trade.

So if the outside contractor in this instance is checking / inspecting faucets, sinks, doors, windows, lighting, furnace or other systems for proper operation, are they not performing a large part of a home inspection?

The line may be crossed once the builder hands the work over to someone outside his company and hires someone to perform those duties. It will be an interesting discussion that continues.

[kpierce]

Audio is up.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by kpierce

Thanks for responding Mike. I'd be more than happy to attend the meeting on November 10th, however, it'd have to be late in the day as I'm already booked in the morning. If you have any say as to what time of day it is, I'd request it for later.

I think I've made myself clear already but I'd like to make a clear distinction between the services I offer. There still seems to be a bit of confusion. Maybe if I'm unable to attend the meeting, you can print this post out and bring it to the meeting like you did my ActiveRain profile.

I offer three different services to home builders:

1. Warranty Management-This service has absolutely nothing to do with home inspecting. The builder carries a defined, one-year limited warranty and all we're doing is taking claims from homeowner's and sending them out to the appropriate sub-contractor for repair. No inspecting involved, just verifying that the problem that the homeowner is claiming is actually a problem and is covered under the terms of the warranty. Again, we aren't identifying anything, the homeowner is.

2. Pre-closing walk through/New home orientation-We walk the homebuyer through the home explaining how components work and introduce them to our company and how to make a warranty claim. The homebuyer is given a chance to point out cosmetic or mechanical deficiencies and we record them and communicate them to the builder. No inspecting involved on our part, the homebuyer is pointing problems out and reporting them to us. I think most here are fully aware of what a builder walk through is.

3. Construction completion verification-This is where the verbiage came from that you noted from my ActiveRain profile. It's a completely different services than what's noted above. Basically, we go in to the home after the builder/GC has finished their construction punch and write a list identifying any problems that still exist that the builder needs to fix prior to the new home orientation. This is not a home inspection. We're simply acting as a quality control sub contractor for the builder. We don't go in the crawl, attic or on the roof and most of the items noted are cosmetic damage (not a part of the WA state SOP).

As mentioned previously, and if you really want to split hairs, I understand the very fine line when simply reading the verbiage on my site. However, there's no consumer involved at this point (no one to "protect" for those that fly that flag) and no one other that the builder is relying on the information we provide, ie. lenders, insurance companies. We're simply creating a "punch list" for the builder so he knows what needs to be done prior to delivery. It can act as either an "in-house" quality control service for a builder or as a 3rd party quality control between a developer and GC.

Ok, after listening to the audio, here are my thoughts.

As mentioned in post 43 (quoted above) there is definitely confusion as to what I'm doing. I understand the fine line with the "quality control" service and it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

However, I want to make this clear, during the warranty management and the new home orientation, we don't inspect anything. The buyer is communicating to us what they want fixed. We're there for verification purposes only. There's a big difference between "inspecting" and "verifying". Why would a builder hire someone to meet with the buyer and tear apart their home trying to find defects? We're acting as an objective, third party that communicates a reasonable punch list for the builder, created by the buyer.

Also, there was a question brought up a couple times about the buyer relying on the information provided to the builder from our quality control service. The buyer does not know that we've provided this service to the builder. This service is in no way marketed to homebuyers. The quality control service is between our company and the builder. It's sole purpose is for the builder to feel confident that the home is ready for the buyer's walk through or is used to agree upon an acceptable state of completion when there is a developer/GC relationship. We're simply going in and "verifying" that the home is in proper condition for delivery. Again, as mentioned in post 43, most of what we're documenting are cosmetic defects (not part of the WA SOP).

[kpierce]

If anyone is interested in the audio about this subject, go here and seek to 12:44.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

I would highly suggest you attend the Business Practice Committee meeting where this will be discussed.

Anyone have a date/time on this yet? I'm on the ListServ and haven't seen anything.

[kpierce]

Any other opinions on the quality control aspect of this discussion? I'm interested in hearing from Nick, Jim, Will, Larson, etc. Should a company that is performing quality control checks for a builder (no buyer involved or relying on the information provided) be required to have an HI license?

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by kpierce

Anyone have a date/time on this yet? I'm on the ListServ and haven't seen anything.

Bump. Anyone hear about a date?

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by Mike O'Handley

I haven't decided where I'll hold the meeting on November 10th yet, but once it's been announced I urge you to attend so that we can get some better insight into the practice.

Did this meeting ever occur? Was it "announced"? Certainly not on the Listserv.

[kpierce]

STATE OF WASHINGTON
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING
PO Box 9020, Olympia, Washington 98507-9020


HOME INSPECTOR LICENSING ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
AGENDA

DATE: March 23, 2010

PLACE: Liquor Control Board
WSLCB – Distribution Center
4401 E. Marginal Way S
Seattle, WA 98134
(206) 464-7920

CONTACT: Rhonda Myers, Program Manager
(360) 664-6387
Email: rmyers@dol.wa.gov

TIME: 9:30 AM to 1:30 PM or until business is completed

ORDER OF OPEN SESSION(S)
AGENDA:

CALLTO ORDER: Bruce MacKintosh, Chair

A. Roll Call

B. Approval of Minutes – Board Meeting O 12/8/2009
Special Meeting of January 26, 2010

C. Use of designation – “Certified Home Inspector”

D. Builders Quality Control Review

E. Pre-Closing Walk Throughs, Documented Punch List Provided
To Buyers, Administer Builder One Year Limited Warranties

F. Third Party Inspectors, Relocation Company Inspections – other states

G. Request from Licensees for Home Inspector LOGO





H. WAC 308-408C – Washington Standards of Practice vs. Standards
of Practice from Professional Organizations as it relates to
Continuing Education Course Submittals

I. Board Generated Complaints – Home Inspectors

J. New Printing of the Carson Dunlop Texts – Home Inspector
Series

K. RCW 18.280.070 Exemption from Licensing – The following persons are exempt from licensing requirements of this chapter
When acting within the scope of their license or professions; (1) Engineers; (2) Architects; (3) Electricians licensed under chapter
19.28.RCW; (4) Plumbers licensed under chapter 18.106 RCW;
(5) Pesticide operators licensed under chapter 17.21 RCW;
(6) Structural pest inspectors licensed under chapter 15.58 RCW; or(7) Certified real estate appraisers licensed under chapter RCW 18.140


L. Home Inspector Instructor Qualifications

[kpierce]

Well, that was a fun meeting.

Get this: According to the home inspector advisory board, if I report on 3 or more items that are included in the WA state SOP during a quality control walk, I'm required to have a home inspector license.

However, at the same time, the board agrees that a maintenance company, using a form titled "Property Inspection Checklist" that includes inspecting:
-"roof damage or missing shingles"
-"gutters missing"
-"visible cracks in the foundation"
-"broken windows"
-"exterior condition"
-"interior condition"
-"any adverse environmental conditions"
-"critical repairs needed to the property"
-"Code violations"
-"visible signs of termite infestation"
-"visible signs of mold infestation"

...are NOT required to have a home inspector license. LOL That will be a fun one for the board to try and defend if I get a complaint.

So, officially, starting today, my quality walks are to be named "Property Inspection Checklists". Problem solved.....

[Harold E. Miller]

I always enjoy how "cryptic" these agendas are.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by hmiller

I always enjoy how "cryptic" these agendas are.

It's insane. Were you at the meeting Harold? I about fell out of my chair when, after my rant about my company, they all felt these "maintenance companies" should be exempt. I'm glad that 3-4 board members agree with me. If they adopt the language they have drafted, it's going to be a tough one for them to enforce when I have board support and they, as a whole, are completely contradicting themselves with this "Property Inspection Checklist" being ok.

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't impressed with this "board meeting". Board members were practically falling asleep at the table. I was waiting for one of them to slam his face into his papers at any moment.