Texas Atty. General Renders Opinion about Liability Insurance

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Doctors get sued at a much higher ratio than inspectors. They pay huge insurance premiums. Why did they do that to themselves, if they control so much?

Apparently you aren't reading on the subject. Texas doctors just got their total liability limited to $250K by state law. Their insurance just dropped by 20% and the state board is overloaded with licenses transferring to Texas.

Originally Posted by jmckenna

Lawyers appear to be the most untrustworthy worthy group of any profession. So much for being in charge of the rules.

Harris polls shows them toward the bottom in professional esteem. Take a WILD guess which profession comes in last.

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Engineers are a dime a dozen in some areas. I have not met many who are good
home inspectors. I have had to over rule some of them on more than one occasion
and won. I hope they write some rules about common sense. I know an Engineer
who left the field to build boat docks. He makes more money now.

I'd rather be building anything right now.

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

If you dig a little deeper, you will find special interest seek to manipulate
all of the professional fields. None of the above are really controlling
much of anything. Follow the money. Inspite of all of this, there is a
an order to the entire mess.

Yes, the how, why and how come is pretty fundamental to seeing the order.

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

They all have to pay E&O. So much for writing their own rules.

Wrong. HI's are the only group required to carry professional indemnification.

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

I am sorry you had to spend so much time writing SoP, just to have your work thrown out. Thank you for your effort.

Thanks. Tuition in the school of life.

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

No laws that have been written make a Texas Inspector less professional than any other inspector... IMHO. Realtors don't like my breed and so far have not discoverd a way to write a rule to make me go away.

We have to agree to disagree, but we are a laughingstock even on this board. North Carolina and Kentucky are rapidly approaching a similar level of absurdity. Nevada is just plain crazy.

John, they do NOT want us to go away. They want us to take the heat from remorseful buyers. That is the whole reason this business exists (and Realtors keep regulatory control).

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

What was your question?

I asked for examples. I think you have answered in context, thanks.

But you cannot cite doctors or lawyers. They may carry E&O for business reasons (wish we had that kind of cash flow, eh?) and they are VERY effective at limiting their liability by statute and regulation.

My counter-example would be Texas Association of Builders and TRCC

RS

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by rstrahan

Apparently you aren't reading on the subject. Texas doctors just got their total liability limited to $250K by state law. Their insurance just dropped by 20% and the state board is overloaded with licenses transferring to Texas.

You missed my point... Doctors get sued more ofter than inspectors.



Harris polls shows them toward the bottom in professional esteem. Take a WILD guess which profession comes in last.

Realtors... we agree on that.



I'd rather be building anything right now.


Then do it.



Yes, the how, why and how come is pretty fundamental to seeing the order.

Ditto

Wrong. HI's are the only group required to carry professional indemnification.

OK... (semantics)... they all have to pay some kind of insurance and if they
controlled so much, then why did they do that to themselves. ?



Thanks. Tuition in the school of life.

Very expensive, but the best kind.


We have to agree to disagree, but we are a laughingstock even on this board. North Carolina and Kentucky are rapidly approaching a similar level of absurdity. Nevada is just plain crazy.

I think if you take a poll on this forum you will find that the people here do
not look at the inspection profession as a laughingstock. Your out of touch.

Please quote any law that makes Texas inspectors less professional than
other inspectors. So far you have avoided this issue and this is your
primary point. It sounds a little condescending to me.

John, they do NOT want us to go away. They want us to take the heat from remorseful buyers. That is the whole reason this business exists (and Realtors keep regulatory control).

I can introduce you to a TON of Realtors that want inspectors to go away
and especially those who would like ME to go away. BTW... much
of the insurance being purchased by inspectors does not protect the
Realtor, so they are not controlling as much as you make it out to be.

BTW... the primary SoP that Texas goes by is almost identical to
the one InterNACHI and other well established SoP use. Do the
Realtors control InterNACHI and everyone else too? Are the
Realtors the shadow government controlling Nick? What are
you trying to say?

I asked for examples. I think you have answered in context, thanks.

Thank you

But you cannot cite doctors or lawyers. They may carry E&O for business reasons (wish we had that kind of cash flow, eh?) and they are VERY effective at limiting their liability by statute and regulation.

See above post. They get sued so much now it is a crying shame.
So much for thinking they control everything. They are not God.

My counter-example would be Texas Association of Builders and TRCC

Yeah and look at their reputation among consumers. Sometimes
letting the fox guard the hen house ends up making the fox look
even worse.

RS

I am proud to be a professional Texas home inspector.
Any problem with that?

[rstrahan]

Man, I can't parse the embedded quotes. Will start anew.

Doctors get sued more ofter than inspectors

Show your data. Per customer, no way. Per dollar, no way. Per year, probably comparable. After E&O our incidence will increase.

Doctors have radically limited their liability by STATUTE here. That is extraordinary and totally supports my observations.

If a doctor kills your kid, you can't sue him/her for more than $250K. If I inspect a million dollar house for you, what's my liability?

Realtors...

Bingo. Realtors are no longer listed in the Harris esteem polls. Take another wild guess why not.

Then do it.

I am. Just trying to earn a few pesos for materials (and more insurance).

Ditto [the hows and whys are important]

My compliments.

OK... (semantics)... they all have to pay some kind of insurance and if they controlled so much, then why did they do that to themselves. ?

Please do a little research on Texas HB 4 - 2003 (Regular Session) and its effects. What "they did to themselves" is reduce their liability at least an order of magnitude. Doctors are flocking to Texas. OB/GYN practictioners have doubled. You imply the opposite.

They do not have to pay for professional indemnification insurance. And if they (freely) decide to get it, it is much cheaper and offered by FIVE times as many carriers prior to that statute.

Outside of our little pond, the most interesting part of the new requirement for HI's was a notable precedent in a state which generally discourages tort claims and has been specifically limiting professional liability in statutes. Except for one "profession."

Lookit, even TAR is a little uncomfortable with this. Their agents buy insurance per transaction. If they were required to certify coverage to renew their license it would decimate their numbers, about 90% of which are non-active agents. Think about it (at least before accusing me of semantics ).

If you really want any concession we are in the same boat as doctors, show me funeral directors influencing their regulation.

I think if you take a poll on this forum you will find that the people here do not look at the inspection profession as a laughingstock.

Sure, take the poll -- then correlate the responses to experience level.

Please don't even try to goad me into bashing inspectors. I am one. I've lost more skin helping other inspectors than you are aware. Last year everybody accused me of being too protective of inspectors. Hard to tell if I am working a tough room or just loitering in a mental hospital.

Your [sic] out of touch.

If you say so. I'm here to be enlightened.

Please quote any law that makes Texas inspectors less professional than other inspectors.

Texas Occupations Code Section 1102.

No derogation of Texas inspectors was intended. I am a Texas inspector (have been longer than you). My original assertion was that HI is not comparable to other "professions" and this is apparent by comparing legislative history and regulatory structures. It shouldn't even need explanation.

Texas is a frequently cited example used by those opposed to HI regulation. You write a perfect law and xAR will simply amend it to suit their purposes. This is a juggernaut; It's simply beyond contention.

So far you have avoided this issue and this is your primary point.

John, I have explained at least ten times by now. Take another poll.

Other jobs recognized as "professions" are not dominated by another "profession" which has inherently contrary interests.

BTW... much of the insurance being purchased by inspectors does not protect the Realtor, so they are not controlling as much as you make it out to be.

The conclusion doesn't necessarily follow, but if you think HI E&O doesn't protect realtors then we live in different solar systems. The requirement was enacted by TTLA - they are the most direct beneficiaries. TAR simply allowed it to happen.

It's the law of the jungle and we are the weak.

BTW... the primary SoP that Texas goes by is almost identical to
the one InterNACHI and other well established SoP use.

Sorry, but that's just plain (and patently) incorrect.

I know you can read, so this is a baffling claim (and somewhat off the point).

[Deleted the next couple of lines. Sheesh.]

Yeah and look at their reputation among consumers. Sometimes letting the fox guard the hen house ends up making the fox look even worse.

So? The fox just wants to eat the chickens. I seriously doubt it cares what they think.

Consumers have positively mortgaged their lives away to buy the builder's product. Read a newspaper.

The most entertaining aspect of your analogy is its application to our business. Realtors regulating home inspectors...

I am proud to be a professional Texas home inspector.

Me too. But the fact that designation keeps getting easier and easier to obtain doesn't diminish my argument one iota. Does it increase your pride?

Any problem with that?

Nope.

My only worry is that we are generating walls of text and may be boring more than a few readers.

Russell

[Michael R. Boyett]

With comments like...

Last year everybody accused me of being too protective of inspectors. Hard to tell if I am working a tough room or just loitering in a mental hospital.

...I couldn't possibly be bored. That's just too funny!

[John McKenna]

Prior to the reforms, Texas presented a hostile climate for medical practitioners. Frequent lawsuits against physicians and hospitals and escalating jury awards to plaintiffs drove doctors and insurers from the state, leading to physician shortages and higher costs for both doctors and patients.

Frivolous medical malpractice lawsuits were rampant. Even though 85 percent of these suits failed, doctors paid tens of thousands of dollars to defend against them.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&hs=LMp&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=resul t&cd=1&q=percentage+lawsuits+doctors&spell=1

Doctors nation wide had to go through horrible legal expense and hassles for years.... until
reform finally gave Texas doctors some relief. They did not have much control to stop it for all those
years. Home inspectors in Texas now have to pay approx. $10-$20 per inspection now to
cover their new insurance cost. This has not made them now non professionals and lower than
other inspectors, as you stated. Your wrong.

Your

There is nothing "professional" about HI in any licensed state I am familiar with. Texas is arguably the worst.

You are defending an exaggerated slander about Texas inspector and are now claiming to defend
them.... hmmm.. I did not wake up one day after some law passed and become non professional.

[Bruce Thompson]

Originally Posted by rstrahan

My only worry is that we are generating walls of text and may be boring more than a few readers.

Russell

Hey I'm still here.

I wish, hope, pray, want to get out from under TREC. With or without E/O, we need some legislators on OUR side.

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by bthompson1

I wish, hope, pray, want to get out from under TREC. With or without E/O, we need some legislators on OUR side.

Amen, Bruce.

It would take divine intervention. Texas lobbyists pumped in a HUNDRED MILLION + last session. We made California look parochial.

If you want to play, you have to pay - Tom Delay (R) Texas, retired

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Doctors nation wide had to go through horrible legal expense and hassles for years.... until reform finally gave Texas doctors some relief. They did not have much control to stop it for all those years. Home inspectors in Texas now have to pay approx. $10-$20 per inspection now to cover their new insurance cost. This has not made them now non professionals and lower than other inspectors, as you stated. Your wrong.

Really??? The whole doctor example (yours) was raised to demonstrate they have some influence over their controlling statutes. I appreciate you actually looking up the facts, but it's not clear what could have possibly made me more right.

Oh well. I'm out of touch.

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

You are defending an exaggerated slander about Texas inspector and are now claiming to defend them.... hmmm.. I did not wake up one day after some law passed and become non professional.

I never claimed anything. I said I was accused of it. That is a matter of public record -- Ask somebody who actually goes to the meetings.

It was explained (at least twice, at length) that "HI" referred to a business, not a corporate group (and certainly not individuals). If you want to nitpick an abbreviated acronym and see offense where no insult lies, that is your perogative. This reeks of insecurity and I derive no satisfaction in aggravating that. I'm confident you are a sooper dooper professional.

Good night and good luck,

Russell

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by rstrahan

Real professions are involved in writing their own rules. There is nothing "professional" about HI in any licensed state I am familiar with. Texas is arguably the worst.

no money + no votes = realtor patsies.

no money + no votes + insurance = lawyer fodder.

You were referring to individuals inspectors in Texas in a condescending manner
which come across as an arrogant know it all. I love to prick inflated egos those
who paint with a broad brush about large groups of people with mocking slur.

You may feel like a realtor patsies and non professional, but I and many
HI in Texas, do not.

I am glad the doctors in Texas have got some relief. After so many years
of being sued till they bleed, the legislators finally granted them respite. I
have talked to many texas doctors who have told me about the living hell
they have to go through because of all the regulation and control that
the government puts on them. I never heard one doctor tell me how glad they
were that doctors get to make all the rules. They don't live in a fantasy
world.

Even with their reduced liability rate, they still get sued way more than inspector
ever have. Way more. Why... because they can't make their own rules as
much as you say they can.

Texas inspectors are not patsies and doctors are not rulers of state law.
And yes, the InterNACHI SoP is very much like the Texas SoP.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by rstrahan

Apparently you aren't reading on the subject. Texas doctors just got their total liability limited to $250K by state law. Their insurance just dropped by 20% and the state board is overloaded with licenses transferring to Texas.

RS

More on Texas Doctors

Russell seems to have omitted and or embellished some of the story.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

More on Texas Doctors

Russell seems to have omitted and or embellished some of the story.

Brian,

I do not see this. Can you elaborate?

JMcKenna wrote:

I am glad the doctors in Texas have got some relief. After so many years
of being sued till they bleed, the legislators finally granted them respite. I
have talked to many texas doctors who have told me about the living hell
they have to go through because of all the regulation and control that
the government puts on them. I never heard one doctor tell me how glad they
were that doctors get to make all the rules. They don't live in a fantasy
world.

John,

The issue of doctors is not unlike any other profession when it involves tort concerns. The fact of the matter is the legislature went to far and in the wrong direction, as usual. This is echoed many times over in many professions and industries.

Our law makers have chosen to create bandaids for problems instead of treating the cause. IMO the issue is with the enforcement of the existing laws, rules and regulations and compounded by a failure in the judicial system. We do not need new laws that effectively protects the offenders (whether it be an inept Doctor, Lawyer, Home Inspector, etc.). Instead we need enforcement actions to weed these problems out. Instead our legislators have chosen to provide a "visible" bandaid to issues to lull the public into believing they are being protected and that the legislators are doing their jobs.

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

RS More on Texas Doctors

Russell seems to have omitted and or embellished some of the story.

What did I omit and/or embellish?? The quote seems consistent with the article.

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

I love to prick inflated egos those who paint with a broad brush about large groups of people with mocking slur.

[/irony]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

You may feel like a realtor patsies and non professional, but I and many HI in Texas, do not.

This was not about feelings, but I am sorry if yours got hurt.

Heck, I'll try it your way: When I look at my TREC license I feel under-represented in the legislative and regulatory process.


RS

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by rstrahan

What did I omit and/or embellish?? The quote seems consistent with the article.

Some experts say the picture may be more complicated and less positive. They question how big a role the cap on malpractice awards has played, arguing that awards in malpractice lawsuits showed little increase in the 12 years before the law changed

Not everyone agrees with how you interpeted the data. And Texas rising from state 48 to state 42 in doctors per capita is not really a big deal.

[John McKenna]

Have a good day Russell and good luck to you. I enjoy the banter.