For those in favor of licensing

[Joseph T. Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Competition in an unlicensed state seems to be centered on qualifications...where, in licensed states, it seems to be centered on the inspection fee. "Where can I find the cheapest licensed inspector?"

Worth repeating. After months of going back & forth I believe you have finally uncovered the keystone in licensing truth & logic.

[bkelly1]

[quote=jbushart]It all boils down to this...

Historically, when the government decides what is fit for a consumer (try looking at the FDA standards for how much rat ***** can be in govt approved balogna) the acceptable "standard" is normally less than what the consumer would decide on his own.

Competition in an unlicensed state seems to be centered on qualifications...where, in licensed states, it seems to be centered on the inspection fee. "Where can I find the cheapest licensed inspector?"[/quote]

Where does this information come from? What studies can you point to for this information. Please tell me it is not just going by someones website.

I know my prices have went up and some others east of me have also. I believe we all think that there are more inspectors flooding the marker after licensing, but the reality is they are probably already there, we just don't know about them..... Yes, I agree it probably adds some, but most people don't even know when a field gets licensed.

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by jburkeson1

Worth repeating. After months of going back & forth I believe you have finally uncovered the keystone in licensing truth & logic.

This logic does not hold true here. I am at the top 10% or so of our local price range. I charge 289 min. and an average 2100 sq. ft. home with a pool is around 389.00.

I have very few calles that even question my price anymore. I think folks know they get what they pay for.

I did a 7400 sq ft. home about a month ago, the price was 1070.00 dollars as they had a multi tiered pool and 4 A/C units not to mention the bowling alley and elevator( I had to sub the elevator 300.00, not included with my fee) it took me 6 hours to inspect the place. Maybe if I have a relaps I will post the report. All said and done I think I under charged them.

It is very interesting.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by tallen

This logic does not hold true here. I am at the top 10% or so of our local price range. I charge 289 min. and an average 2100 sq. ft. home with a pool is around 389.00.

Maybe you should go help your pal, harris. He only gets $275 for the same house. Must be his affilliation with ASHI that's holding him back.

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Maybe you should go help your pal, harris. He only gets $275 for the same house. Must be his affilliation with ASHI that's holding him back.

Don't fool yourself James, Dan makes a damn good living. he just has a different nich. I do the monstors and he does the 11 month folks. Dan is doing well over 175,000 per year which tops me at this point.

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Maybe you should go help your pal, harris. He only gets $275 for the same house. Must be his affilliation with ASHI that's holding him back.

Affilliation means next to nothing here anymore, you get what your refferals say you are worth.

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by tallen

Affilliation means next to nothing here anymore, you get what your refferals say you are worth.

So, in your case you probably get 189.00 for a 2000 sq. ft. home.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by tallen

So, in your case you probably get 189.00 for a 2000 sq. ft. home.

Nope. To the contrary, I was just paid $350 for a 980 sq ft.

But then, we don't have licensing in Missouri, so I do have a bit of an advantage.

What was cool in this case was how the real estate salesperson was trying to push her $175 ASHI inspector and my client refused, repeatedly. This was a referral and her parents insisted on an "objective" inspection. I was able to arrange for one of my chapter members (an ASHI guy member) to get the Radon inspection. The whole thing totalled over $550.

St. Louis ASHI has developed the reputation of being in the pocket of MAR. Of course, I am doing everything I can to stop that perception from getting to too many people.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Your belief has not been substantiated by fact.

In states where the government (instead of the consumer) has determined the basic minimum standard...there is the Soviet Union Syndrome effect where there becomes no incentive to exceed it. The client is led to believe that a license reflects the quality and competency that is required and...frankly...can find no reason to pay for more than that. And why should they?

As an educational vendor in a newly licensed state, you are motivated to turn out as many new inspectors as are willing to sign up for your training program. Each graduate will hit the street - if you trained them properly - with the ability to obtain the same license you have. What will distinguish you from them that will justify, to your client, why they should pay you more?

I've asked you before to show us Your Facts about these observations you have made. I'm still waiting for them along with how you guys come up with the numbers that show that BECAUSE of Licensing the number of Inspectors Increases by 300%.

As far as your Edcucation Vendor statement, I do business in two unregulated States and I receive 6 to 8 Education Offers a day from NACHI Vendors who want to turn out as many students as they can, all equally qualified. As for a school that trains Inspectors all to the same level to obtain the same license, requiring a HI to have a certain level of any education would be a step up.

Your opinions James are no more facts than anyone else's opinion.

[James H. Bushart]

Great news.

Washington inspectors were successful in stopping a home inspection bill that was started in the senate and "certain to become law" this year.

They have a full year to work together in public hearings to bury it, for good, and to keep it from coming up again for a long, long time.

Licensing solves nothing. Way to go, Washington.

[rcooke]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

I've asked you before to show us Your Facts about these observations you have made. I'm still waiting for them along with how you guys come up with the numbers that show that BECAUSE of Licensing the number of Inspectors Increases by 300%.

As far as your Edcucation Vendor statement, I do business in two unregulated States and I receive 6 to 8 Education Offers a day from NACHI Vendors who want to turn out as many students as they can, all equally qualified. As for a school that trains Inspectors all to the same level to obtain the same license, requiring a HI to have a certain level of any education would be a step up.
Your opinions James are no more facts than anyone else's opinion.

This not a fact just an observation .
I have not seen another home inspector the lives with in 100 miles from me at any continuing education classes the I have been at in the last two years .
I have only missed one meeting to increase my CEs.

There are over 100 Home inspectors in this area.
I wonder where do they get their CEs????

I am well over the required CEs for every year in the last 8 years .

Roy Cooke

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Lewis when someone talks about the increase in inspectors after licensing, you could be talking about Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois, NC, etc. For some strange reason numbers seem to grow rather than drop.

OR they could be referring to the Ohio RE Commission study, that indicates that in the states they studied - once licensed the number of HI's went up; the amount of HI's each person did went down; your income went down.

Maybe thats what the guys are referring to.

As a trainer, one thing I notice in MY AREA is once licensed, most inspectors I see go to enough CE classes to meet their states requirements - period.

[James H. Bushart]

I am genuinely interested in learning more from licensing proponents about their opinion that licensing, somehow or another, increases the level of trust that a client would have in the industry.

The only times that I have found clients doubting the integrity of our profession is when it has been closely linked to that of real estate salesmen. On these occassions, the client expressed doubt that the inspector recommended by the agent would actually be working in their interest - and were searching for an alternative.

Since the licensing bills (at least the one in my state, and several others) are pushed by real estate salesmen - it would appear on the surface that this link would create, not eliminate, doubt in the credibility of the home inspection.

I am inclined to believe that those who are arguing that licensing enhances their trust level with the client are actually referring more to the salesmen that are referring the client...than the client themselves. Our clients are, for the most part, oblivious to these type of issues.

How close am I to being correct?

[jwortham1]

I am genuinely interested in learning more from licensing proponents about their opinion that licensing, somehow or another, increases the level of trust that a client would have in the industry.

I'm neither an opponent or a proponent. I just navigate the field I find myself deployed on. That being said, I also don't feel that licensing depresses the fees charged. If everyone is licensed or everyone is unlicensed, it's a wash.
I could see a difference if some were licensed and some unlicensed but in the consumers eyes, the licensed one would logically command a higher fee in that case. Not the unlicensed one.

After licensing came into effect there WAS a large increase in the number of HI's in Illinois. However, I seriously doubt it had anything to do with licensing and everything to do with the real estate market booming. The two just happened to coincide.

The number of HI licenses in Illinois dropped from over 3500 to 2400 in the last renewal cycle. That includes licenses issued to companies so the total number is even lower. We are still a licensed state. For your theory to hold water, we should have ever spiralling numbers of HI's. We don't.

Originally Posted by lcapaul

I've asked you before to show us Your Facts about these observations you have made. I'm still waiting for them along with how you guys come up with the numbers that show that BECAUSE of Licensing the number of Inspectors Increases by 300%.

We are all still waiting. If you can actually back up your numbers, post the sources.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Yes. As in all licensed states, to the majority of the licensees and the clients that hire them, the license - itself - means I am qualified and competent. Why blow a couple hundred bucks on a seminar?

Do you really think in states without licensing that clients look at the CE HI's obtained in making a choice of inspectors? Now I think both you and Gerry had one to many pints in the pub together ...

Since you are in an unlicensed state how many times have you been asked by prospective clients about seminars or advanced training you have taken (beyond just initial basic training)? I have been doing building inspections for over 20 years in a state that only recently instituted licensing, and have been asked about specialized training maybe once.

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Rob, a large percentile of any group will never aspire to anything more than mediocrity.

I agree. And these are the same individuals more likely not to get any additional training unless mandated.

At LIU where I teach p/t we had a whole series of elective/specialized courses related to home inspections. Over the years we have had only a handfull of students take the elective courses that were not in the LIU HI program, even though it had an excellent reputation for it's HI training. Seemed like it would take a crow bar to open up walets for additional/specialized training.

Prior to licensing becoming effective here in NY, training seminars (other than basic/initial training) were very few and far between. Now with licensing that will require CE there are plans for educational events with CE classes, seminars, and many schools are gearing up to offer new CE courses.

My own experience in a state that recently instituted licensing indicates exactly the opposite of the thinking that licensing will "lower the bar". But maybe someone has some hard numbers, and not just pontification, to substantiate the position that licensing may actually "lower the bar".

JMO & 2-nickels ...