Washington Inspectors and those who work in Washington

[Carla Horne]

wow, the topic of licensing sure does make people crabby!


when all else fails,

[lcapaul]

Licensing is "instant credibility" where brand new home inspectors can find themselves on immediate and equal footing - considered to be equally competent and qualified - as the 35 year veterans who are also licensed in their state.

So is "Certification", 9600 NACHI members all claim that status, State Regulation with the Requirement to pass a test like the NHIE would elimintae many or those and many other "Inspectors" as well, but all any State Regualtion would do would be to set a minimum Standard, those with more expeience, better service, better marketing, and who do better Inspections would still win out, Right now in an unregulated State All Inspectors ARE Equal, even those who could not pass any mnimum standard and who operate with no SOP or Ethical Code, what makes some better are the same things that will make them better if the State were regulated, better service, greater experience, better marketing, better Inspections.

Like I keep saying, I'm happy the way things are, where I can use my E&O and my WSDA License as marketing tools against those who don't have them, where I can say that I inspect to this SOP and this COE, things are just fine the way they are, BUT if legislation is going to be passed, or as it appears in Washington, is likely to be passed I want that regulation to mean something and to be enforcable, along with being to my best advatage. That's my Plan "B"...Joe's quote says that successful people always have a Plan "B", my pla"B" is not to have to sit around an ***** about a bill just because I couldn't stop it, I'd rather have one where I at least had some input and could live with.

The present "Advisory Board" proposal isn't one that I will or could support without serious changes, right now, from what I understand the Senators are considering reviving SB6229 from last year, and I have sent emails and letters to all Senators involved plus some who aren't directly, to defeat that Bill once again, the Baord's proposal isn't solid yet, maybe it will be modified to where in can be an alternative to 6229 if Senator Spanel and Kolle-Weeles are set on passing something, and we know you don't like alternatives.

What's really stupid is all the pressure on the Politicians that the KIRO Report has caused, if you read the report the Issue isn't really about the Home Inspection itself, the Inspector admitted to making a mistake, and he has Insurance, the issue is really about LImitation of Liability which will be decided in the Courts, none of the HI Regulation proposals have addressed that, and yes I did mention that in my letters, along with saying that the "Adisory Board" doesn't represent me, and asking them to limit the input on the Issue to Washington Inspectors who are obeying the presnt State Law.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

So is "Certification", 9600 NACHI members all claim that status, State Regulation with the Requirement to pass a test like the NHIE would elimintae many or those and many other "Inspectors" as well, but all any State Regualtion would do would be to set a minimum Standard, those with more expeience, better service, better marketing, and who do better Inspections would still win out, Right now in an unregulated State All Inspectors ARE Equal, even those who could not pass any mnimum standard and who operate with no SOP or Ethical Code, what makes some better are the same things that will make them better if the State were regulated, better service, greater experience, better marketing, better Inspections.

Like I keep saying, I'm happy the way things are, where I can use my E&O and my WSDA License as marketing tools against those who don't have them, where I can say that I inspect to this SOP and this COE, things are just fine the way they are, BUT if legislation is going to be passed, or as it appears in Washington, is likely to be passed I want that regulation to mean something and to be enforcable, along with being to my best advatage. That's my Plan "B"...Joe's quote says that successful people always have a Plan "B", my pla"B" is not to have to sit around an ***** about a bill just because I couldn't stop it, I'd rather have one where I at least had some input and could live with.

The present "Advisory Board" proposal isn't one that I will or could support without serious changes, right now, from what I understand the Senators are considering reviving SB6229 from last year, and I have sent emails and letters to all Senators involved plus some who aren't directly, to defeat that Bill once again, the Baord's proposal isn't solid yet, maybe it will be modified to where in can be an alternative to 6229 if Senator Spanel and Kolle-Weeles are set on passing something, and we know you don't like alternatives.

What's really stupid is all the pressure on the Politicians that the KIRO Report has caused, if you read the report the Issue isn't really about the Home Inspection itself, the Inspector admitted to making a mistake, and he has Insurance, the issue is really about LImitation of Liability which will be decided in the Courts, none of the HI Regulation proposals have addressed that, and yes I did mention that in my letters, along with saying that the "Adisory Board" doesn't represent me, and asking them to limit the input on the Issue to Washington Inspectors who are obeying the presnt State Law.

You are certainly within your rights and should be applauded for your involvement in the process. Too many sit idly expecting things to go their way and lamenting when they don't.

I will still argue that "no bill", which is the present legislative condition of your state, is the best alternative to any of the present proposals and should be the one argued, first. Working to amend a proposal that has not even been picked up by the legislature as a means to fighting unwanted legislation is extremely risky and would divert people away from the more effective position of "no bill" at all. Just my opinion.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by chorne

wow, the topic of licensing sure does make people crabby!


when all else fails,

It is fairly universal that those who are in favor of licensing will attempt to discredit or imply that those of us who see no need for licensing are somehow substandard or unable to meet the minimum standard of the legislation they are in favor of.

Since that is not possible with me people they then attempt to discredit me personally or claim that my opinion is not valid because of location, age, sex, color, shoe size, etc. whatever.

The licensing Nazis and the other control freaks who believe they know what is best for us and are impinging on our personal rights and freedoms need to exposed for what they are.

The freedom to run your business as you see fit is viable and supportable.

The freedom to organize and lobby for licensing laws that turn us into indentured servants and subvert the rights of others is vile and despicable and should not be supported.

Both are freedoms, one serves the good of the community the other serves a select protected segment of society who wish to control the home inspector market.

Licensing solves nothing, and creates its own set of problems.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by jbushart

You are certainly within your rights and should be applauded for your involvement in the process. Too many sit idly expecting things to go their way and lamenting when they don't.

I will still argue that "no bill", which is the present legislative condition of your state, is the best alternative to any of the present proposals and should be the one argued, first. Working to amend a proposal that has not even been picked up by the legislature as a means to fighting unwanted legislation is extremely risky and would divert people away from the more effective position of "no bill" at all. Just my opinion.

James, NO BILL is a risk too, spending all your effort to defeat a Bill that politicians are determined to pass can lead to ending up with crap, look around ant the 30 or so State with Regulation, most of the laws are pi$$ poor at best, and they were likely passed because to many wasted all their efforts in stopping any legislation.

Joe is correctly pointing out to all to see that those taking the discussion to obscure message boards where they can pretend to be a majority is senseless and does little for either side of the issue. Stay in the light. It won't hurt you.

There is no where here on the NACHI Board for members to discuss issues invloving their own Business and regulations in their own State without the thread being taken over by others, who may have an interest in the issue, but no direct involvement or consequience, that's why I suggested the forum on the TIJ site, we've already heard your opinions along with Joe's and others both against and for regulation, all the TIJ site does is offer a place where Washington Inspectors can discuss the issue themselves, no one is trying to be a majoity or to speak for anyone else, and this legislation involve more Inspectors than just NACHI, on the TIJ site EVERYONE can voice their opinion and talk about what they plan to do without being distracted by the opinions of others who have no business in Washington or its Legislation.

When the Drafts are posted, I'll email them directly to you if you want, but we should have the right to privacy to discuss matters that directly concern us.

Most of the population and most of the HI's in Washington are on the West side, 300 to 400 miles from me, they can get together at restaurants etc. and meet to discuss the issue, there are 20+ NACHI Members on the East side but only 4 of us are interested enough to obey the present requirements in the State, there are many more members in the more rural areas of the State, the TIJ Forum would provide them a place to discuss their business matters in relative privacy

Once the Drafts are out, including the Draft of the Actual Proposal if we are to ever see it, then I'm sure it will be posted here and open for discussion, but some Washington Inspectors may want to discuss things in Privacy in a forum where they won't be attacked for having a differnet opinon than someone else in a far away State.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by jburkeson1

It is fairly universal that those who are in favor of licensing will attempt to discredit or imply that those of us who see no need for licensing are somehow substandard or unable to meet the minimum standard of the legislation they are in favor of.

Since that is not possible with me people they then attempt to discredit me personally or claim that my opinion is not valid because of location, age, sex, color, shoe size, etc. whatever.

The licensing Nazis and the other control freaks who believe they know what is best for us and are impinging on our personal rights and freedoms need to exposed for what they are.

The freedom to run your business as you see fit is viable and supportable.

The freedom to organize and lobby for licensing laws that turn us into indentured servants and subvert the rights of others is vile and despicable and should not be supported.

Both are freedoms, one serves the good of the community the other serves a select protected segment of society who wish to control the home inspector market.

Licensing solves nothing, and creates its own set of problems.

It is fairly universal that those who are in favor of licensing will attempt to discredit or imply that those of us who see no need for licensing are somehow substandard or unable to meet the minimum standard of the legislation they are in favor of.

Since that is not possible with me people they then attempt to discredit me personally or claim that my opinion is not valid because of location, age, sex, color, shoe size, etc. whatever.

Show us an example of that Joe, where were you attacked, when did someone attempt to discredit you, no one has said you "opinion" is any less valid than anyone elses, all you seem to be upset about is that a couple of us have told you that you've already stated your opinion repeatedly and that we know it by heart, but that our business and the things that effect our business directly in a State more than 3000 mile from yours, isn't any of your business.

You are theonly one who has attacked the credibility and the standards of another Nachi Member, no one has questioned you ability or your right to voice your opinion, you seem to be upset more because we would like to discuss issues in our State with other Inspectors from our State, instead of you, that must be why you attack people who have already said that they are against the present proposals, which you say you are, your opinions are valid Joe, but they are just opinions and they not relevant in Washington State matters, you don't vote here and you don't do business here.

You told me to keep my hands off "Your Stuff" Joe, why shouldn't you keep your hands off "My Stuff", it seems you have legislation being proposed in Florida, that's "Your Stuff".

If a group of Washington Inspectors were to meet and discuss this Issue at some restaurant in private, would we have to send you notes of that meeting so that you could be informed of what we discussed, or could that meeting be considered Private? going to a Private Forum is the same thing Joe, it just save hundreds of miles of travel.

Come on Joe, show us an example of where you were personally attacked for your Opinion, then let the people who are viewing this thread compare that to what you attempted to do to another NACHI Member like Harold, come on Joe who's really trying to discredit people because of their opinions, look in a mirror.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

James, NO BILL is a risk too

All options have their risks. The "no bill" option has, in fact, the least risk.

Whether you choose to support the present bill or any proposed amendments, you are pushing it through the process where - ten minutes before it is presented to the governor for his signature - a change can come out of blue (from the trial lawyer's lobby, the real estate agent's lobby, etc) that turns the bill into something far, far from what you wanted. At that point, you are dead in the water.

Your support for "no bill", which is a readily acceptable option by the legislators not directly involved with the passage of the bill, can be pushed through without any chances of misinterpretation or last minute changes/additions.

Bringing you into the discussion and pretending to be listening to you or otherwise soliciting your input is an old trick of the opposition...to keep you at the table and away from the legislature. They have a strong argument in favor of their proposals....they have a strong argument against your proposed changes....but THEY HAVE NO PROOF THAT LEGISLATION OF ANY KIND IS NECESSARY. They cannot effectively argue against the "no bill" position.

[lcapaul]

Show us an example of that Joe, where were you attacked, when did someone attempt to discredit you, no one has said you "opinion" is any less valid than anyone elses, all you seem to be upset about is that a couple of us have told you that you've already stated your opinion repeatedly and that we know it by heart, but that our business and the things that effect our business directly in a State more than 3000 mile from yours, isn't any of your business.

Come on Joe, show us an example of where you were personally attacked for your Opinion, then let the people who are viewing this thread compare that to what you attempted to do to another NACHI Member like Harold, come on Joe who's really trying to discredit people because of their opinions, look in a mirro

Where did I mention credibility Joe, other than you attacking Harold's,

Originally Posted by jburkeson1
It is fairly universal that those who are in favor of licensing will attempt to discredit or imply that those of us who see no need for licensing are somehow substandard or unable to meet the minimum standard of the legislation they are in favor of.

Since that is not possible with me people they then attempt to discredit me personally or claim that my opinion is not valid because of location, age, sex, color, shoe size, etc. whatever.

When did anyone imply that you were substandard or could not meet the minimum standards of any legislation?

Seeing as you say that couldn't be done, then when were you personally attacked or when did anyone attempt to discredit you personally because of your opinion on regulation

And if you believe that HI Regulation is an attack on the basic fundamentals of freedom, you must have had a very bad last 6 years.

Show us JOe, where did anyone attempt to "dicredit" you, me I haven't even said that your opinion is wrong, I've just said that what goes on here is none of your business, but maybe I'm wrong, should I write a letter to Sen Spanel and tell her that Joe B. down in Florida thinks regulation is crap, do you think that would do any good, or should the Inspectors here organize into however many groups supporting whatever side of the Issue they like and write letters to our Senators than don't even mention you or your "opinion"?

[Brian E. Kelly]

With Civilization comes Legislation

I like Civilization.
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[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Lewis,

Do you really think I care about about what you think or the logic you use to arrive at your decisions? I am playing with you, screwing with your head, pushing your buttons. The time, energy and resources you wasted here diddling with me means that you have less time to devote to your sick passion for licensing. You didn't really think for an instance that there was ever a chance where we would breakthrough and I would somehow get it, did you?

The universe is not kind to those who build systems where a high degree of order is required to keep things running smoothly, nor does it reward those who expend large amounts of energy maintaining a steady state. Because chaos is the natural order of things it takes much less effort to change circumstances then to create and maintain ordered systems.

The fabric of the universe is chaos and today's blue plate special is change. That is the reason it is so much easier to defeat a bill then to get one passed, but I think you and your buddies over at TIJ should keep up the work. Hell, I'll keep throwing monkey wrenches in th the machine whenever I can and we can all stay busy.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by jburkeson1

Lewis,

Do you really think I care about about what you think or the logic you use to arrive at your decisions? I am playing with you, screwing with your head, pushing your buttons. The time, energy and resources you wasted here diddling with me means that you have less time to devote to your sick passion for licensing. You didn't really think for an instance that there was ever a chance where we would breakthrough and I would somehow get it, did you?

The universe is not kind to those who build systems where a high degree of order is required to keep things running smoothly, nor does it reward those who expend large amounts of energy maintaining a steady state. Because chaos is the natural order of things it takes much less effort to change circumstances then to create and maintain ordered systems.

The fabric of the universe is chaos and today's blue plate special is change. That is the reason it is so much easier to defeat a bill then to get one passed, but I think you and your buddies over at TIJ should keep up the work. Hell, I'll keep throwing monkey wrenches in th the machine whenever I can and we can all stay busy.

You haven't screwed with my head or pushed any of my buttons Joe, except for attacking another NACHI Member, Harold, that is, that pi$$ed me off, and I haven't sent you any emails with all the little @@##$$%%&&&!! that you seem to like to use.

Did I ever think that you would get it, I never knew I was trying to convince you of anything for you to get, people like you seldom GET anything, they believe that only they know the Truth and that their Opinions are rules for everyone else to follow, you've demonstrated that perfectly over the past few days, especially with your attack on Harold.

If this was just one case your fairy tale might hold up, after all I just got through telling another member I should quit picking on you but that it wasw so much fun, but if anyone wanted to look back on your posts over the past year or so they would see that you really are nothing but an opinionated egotist, if they want to check other message boards, not TIJ, they can see that you do the same things there.

No I don't think you care what anyone thinks Joe, you've got all the answers and if someone doesn't agree then that is a personal attack or an attempt to dicredit you, even though you can't show that any attack or attempt to discredit you was ever made, except in your own little mind.

Time, Energy, and Resources that I've wasted. Time maybe but it's been amusing watching you rant and telling us how HI Regulation will destroy the Foundations of our Freedom and how we will become Indentured servants, etc.. and Energy, you're the only one who expended much enrgy getting all excited sending your nice little emails that demonstrate your true brilliance, and Resources??? What resources have I used? I could, I guess use some and send some videos and court cases I have found to some Florida Senators and people there who want Regulation passed. Is "Your Stuff" my stuff Joe, or is it only "My Stuff" is your stuff?

I wouldn't send the videos, court cases, and lawsuit information I have came up with over the past few months to Florida, what happens in Florida is the business of you Inspectors there, my business, My Stuff is 3000 miles away.