Wondering if I belong?

[James H. Bushart]

Once again...those who are in the business of selling tests and courses and use legislation as a marketing tool....have made untested and illogical claims that they have been able to quantify home inspection skills and reduce them to paper.

The latest claims being made by these carpetbaggers are taking place in the state of Kansas.

Work with me, here, David. Understand these critical and pivotal points. Kansas has no state building code....nor does it have a state standard for qualifying an electrician, a plumber, or an HVAC mechanic.

Are you with me?

Now, tell me how the NHIE's testing an inspector on the knowledge of the need for a 42" handrail is relevant in a state that does not require, nor considers it a defect, for a handrail to be 25" high? Then, tell me how this test which is alleged to be psychometrically accurate, can predict David Anderson's success as an inspector in Kansas because he knows that a handrail everywhere else but in his state should be 42" high.

After you have stumbled your way through that, tell me how the consumer is served when they have to use an unlicensed contractor who is not required to apply any minimum basic standards in his work and who will not be inspected by an AHJ when he is through....to remediate the issues that are addressed in David Anderson's inspection report?

Now...everyone knows that the basic appeal to licensing laws to home inspectors is the idea that they discourage people from entering the field and competing against existing inspectors because of additional built-in expenses. Kansas has done this with the ridiculous idea of mandatory pre-licensing training.

Please lay out for us an 80 hour curriculum for home inspectors who will be working in a state that has no standard building code, no standard contractor licensing, and no AHJs to enforce any standard at all.

In a home where the builder is allowed to do whatever he wishes....in a house that is being sold "as is"....where there are no standards published by the state that apply to the building of or present condition of the house.....what is a defect?

No state that refuses to establish minimum standards for builders and contractors can effectively regulate inspectors. No vendor has created a test or a course that has proven to indicate any increase in the propensity for success of a home inspector....especially in environments described in this post.

Are you fathoming, yet?

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

There are always exceptions BUT, as a rule passing the TEST doesn't qualify you for much of anything. It simply indicates you passed a Test.

[David A. Andersen]

Yes James, I understand your perception.

I have nothing to say about your so-called "carpetbaggers".
I cannot help that you are so upset about someone making a living selling "bogus" home inspection testing. This type of thing happens all the time. Actually, home inspection could be considered in the same category. Are we just complaining about deficiencies that have no real merit? Yes, very often. I don't support this practice either.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by swessler

I have to admit, for the first time since I have been here with NACHI, I feel maybe I don't belong.
I read a Thread with alot of discussion with a few of the more esteemed members of the association on 7/23/09 about the NHIE Exam.
Here is 1 of my 2 questions relating to this topic.
Nick staited "We do not chase newbies", let them all get licensed up and legal, then come see us. I'm a newbie as I have been here for only 10 months, and had already renewed my membership. Maybe I need to go, until I can meet the qualifications you all expect.
I came here to learn from the best, but if my caliber of experience is not good enough, I will leave.
Question 2
Mr. Bushart wrote in a thread, "A license is strictly a basic minimum entry level qualification, with no assurance of skill".
That could be said to be true of your Mechanic, Nurse, Appliance salseman, you get the idea.
The quality of the Ongoing Education as well as background is so very important, but the exams, tests, licenses allow others to review your education and thats what the public looks at, and they are the ones we call clients.
I came to NACHI to learn from the Best and try to do everything I can to offer the Best in return to clients. NACHI is the BEST, but you have to look at the future of the industry. It won't change alot of minds, but why not do a poll on what NACHI members think about state testing and NACHI involvement.
Steve

Welcome Steve.

Nick posts all sorts of inflammatory crap all the time here, to drum up debate, which gets more eyes on His message Board, and increases His income.

James lives in an area of the country where NO PROFESSIONAL at all holds a License, at least that is how he tell it. So James wonders why he, as a HI needs to have a License.

Try not to ask the same question over and over and over again and you will be fine.

PS, get yourself some sort of code book relating to your specific geographic area of the country.

[Steven J. Wessler]

Mr. Anderson has related more closely than most to my point. Nick and Mr. Bushart has their own opinions set and I will have to respect that, SO,
What I am to understand is that the NHIE Exam is a entry level exam for Newbies,
and the majority of NACHI Veteran Inspectors feels that NACHI should not train Newbies for the entry level testing. Then why do you accept us for membership?
As far as me only posting .25 posts per day, I was wanting to learn and ask questions as needed, not get into a P!ss!ng contest when I do ask a question that is important to me, like this.

[Nick Gromicko]

OK Brian, now you've peaked my curiosity.

How does posting the FACT that the NHIE is a minimum standard exam with a low (easy) 70% passing cut-off score and is used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school... increase my income. Can you connect the dots for me?

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by swessler

Mr. Anderson has related more closely than most to my point. Nick and Mr. Bushart has their own opinions set and I will have to respect that, SO,
What I am to understand is that the NHIE Exam is a entry level exam for Newbies,
and the majority of NACHI Veteran Inspectors feels that NACHI should not train Newbies for the entry level testing. Then why do you accept us for membership?
As far as me only posting .25 posts per day, I was wanting to learn and ask questions as needed, not get into a P!ss!ng contest when I do ask a question that is important to me, like this.

$$$$$$$$$

[Nick Gromicko]

Brian advises:

get yourself some sort of code book relating to your specific geographic area of the country.

Good advice, but just remember that only 1 in 100 defects reported in the average home inspection report are of systems or components not installed to code.

For example: All roofs that were installed perfectly to code 30 years ago, probably have defects today... even though they were installed to code.

Knowing how to install a roof to code has something, but not much to do with knowing how to inspect that roof years later... and everything gets old.

Knowing codes doesn't make you a home inspector just like knowing how to inspect doesn't make you a code inspector. The two disciplines only partially overlap.

[Steven J. Wessler]

Nick,
Could you give me a reply to my question about accepting Newbies for membership, when clearly you have no desire to help with something that is being required in more and more states, just because you feel its a waste of your time and materials.

[Nick Gromicko]

Sure, what is the question?

[Steven J. Wessler]

What I am to understand is that the NHIE Exam is a entry level exam for Newbies,
and the majority of NACHI Veteran Inspectors feels that NACHI should not train Newbies for the entry level testing. Then why do you accept us for membership?

[James E. Braun, CMI]

For I can better understand you Steve, I need to ask you a question:

What made you join InterNACHI in the first place?

[Nick Gromicko]

First, I don't know that your premise ("majority") is true, we never had a vote on it. But hypothetically let's say that you are correct. The answer to your question would be that InterNACHI doesn't base it's decisions solely on what the "majority" of members "feel."

[Steven J. Wessler]

I joined InterNACHI after speaking with George from Bst Inspectors for 2 Hours. I was a member of another origination and felt there was a void in the education. I bought Georges software and recieved the membership.

[David A. Andersen]

As far as me only posting .25 posts per day, I was wanting to learn and ask questions as needed, not get into a P!ss!ng contest when I do ask a question that is important to me, like this.

I knew that. I may have done the same thing.
But anyway, don't hang in the rafters. Get out there and bash some of these opinions. You may change someone's mind for the better, or learn something in the process. Who knows? Just don't expect too much in every case.

I find that if I make a post and get bashed by 10 inspectors, the one inspector that gets my drift makes it all worth while.

Jim B and I will likely never see eye to eye on this issue.
That is not important. We teach ourselves by responding to these opinions.
Jim will bash me and I him. We could be best of friends!
We just need to respect each other in the process.
Discussion is good. We can always take something good away from these discussions.

Sometimes we just have to turn away if things get too hot.

As for INACHI teaching the NAHI test, I don't think that is possible or appropriate.
INACHI is about continuing education and inspector support...
Use it for what it is. It can't be everything for every situation.