Asbestos

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by prussell

Another note and that is on many older homes in my area asbestos siding is most likely to be the second layer of siding, usually over clapboards.

If this is the case then serious removal costs may be involved, #1 would you put a third layer of siding on a house, #2 if disposed of the cost can be somewhere around 800.00-1000.00 per ton, 3 if removal is the course of action you may have to remove the clapboards as well because you cant strip the asbestos siding with out pulling the clapboards with it.

A simple 20 square siding job could turn into a 30,000.00 exterior renovation project.

Peter, did you mean $800-$1000 a ton?

Tipping fees around here are $85 a ton and $125 hook-up fee.
Asbestos fees are in the $200 a ton range and hauled to Scarborough, Maine which adds a couple hundred on the haul fees. This is done by Pine Tree Waste Disposal. They are all over the Country.

Just curious.

Marcel

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Peter, did you mean $800-$1000 a ton?

Tipping fees around here are $85 a ton and $125 hook-up fee.
Asbestos fees are in the $200 a ton range and hauled to Scarborough, Maine which adds a couple hundred on the haul fees. This is done by Pine Tree Waste Disposal. They are all over the Country.

Just curious.

Marcel

Hi Marcel, yes, the last time I checked, and I could be wrong, that was the price for asbestos. Cement/mix may be different.

Either way to do a proper restoration siding job will be in the 10-20K plus range.

PS. this includes double bagging of all asbestos and proper disposal.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by mcyr

A little description of what is required for Homeowners attempting to remove asbestos siding or roofing materials.

Asbestos Siding and Roofing Removal Guidelines

for Homeowners

General
Based on a number of health studies, the inhalation of asbestos fibers is known to cause several respiratory diseases and research shows that asbestos in any form may constitute a potential health hazard. When untouched, asbestos siding and roofing present a minimal health hazard because the asbestos fibers are bound in a cement type mixture. However, because inhalation is the exposure route of concern, it is important to prevent asbestos fibers from becoming airborne. The health hazard occurs when the siding or roofing is drilled, sawed, sanded, or broken and the fibers are released to the air.
The removal of siding and roofing can be legally performed by home owners, general contractors, or licensed abatement contractors as long as each does not violate the National Emissions Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP) and work complies with Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) regulations delineated in 29 CFR 1926.1101. NESHAP regulations prohibit any visible emissions of asbestos fibers. As of October 1, 1995 changes in the OSHA regulations require a "competent person" to supervise all asbestos projects and a negative initial exposure assessments must be performed before employees trained in compliance with 29 CFR 1926.1101 can perform asbestos roofing and siding work. It should be noted that if the home owner has tenants then the homeowner is responsible for occupants other than the immediate family and the same regulations that apply to contractors applies to the homeowner.
Before deciding to proceed with what is believed to be an asbestos removal project, be sure that the roofing or siding actually contains asbestos. This can be verified by sending a small sample for laboratory analysis. If the siding/roofing does contain asbestos, be sure to become fully appraised of regulatory requirements before beginning the work. If the material is or becomes friable, (meaning it can be crushed by hand pressure) then it can only be removed by a licensed abatement contractor or the home owner doing the work himself. It is important to note that even under the best circumstances these procedures can be physically demanding and potentially dangerous. Breathing through a respirator places an additional stress on the heart and lungs. Employers are required to have employees medically tested and approved by a doctor to use a negative pressure respirator. For individual homeowners it would be prudent to seek a medical opinion prior to wearing such equipment. Protective clothing can become hot and restrict motion, requiring added care to be taken when working on ladders and in high places. Eye protection may result in reduced visibility. Caution must be taken around live wiring and electrical power when using the misting (water application) techniques to prevent visible emissions of asbestos fibers.
The homeowner (or contractor removing the material) is responsible for determining the condition of the asbestos material. If the asbestos siding or roofing is "non-friable" (meaning that it cannot be crushed to powder by hand pressure), the law considers it to be a solid waste which requires special handling and can be disposed of in landfill approved for that purpose with consent of the owner/operator.
There are strict regulations governing how asbestos is to be packaged, labeled, and transported to landfills permitted to accept asbestos.
Arrangements for adhering to these provisions should be made prior to starting the job of removal.
In making a decision regarding the removal of asbestos roofing or siding, the homeowner should utilize the following tests to determine the associated health risks. If any part of the siding or roofing material can be crushed into powder by hand pressure, it is to be considered potentially dangerous. If no powder can be generated by hand pressure, the material is probably relatively safe. The removal procedure to be utilized is governed by the type and condition of the asbestos material. If there is any question as to the type of roofing material confirmation should be made by laboratory analysis.
The following strategy can be used as a guideline in developing a plan of action for removal and disposal of asbestos siding and roofing:

• Obtain quotes and recommendations from at least three removal contractors for removal and disposal of the siding or roofing.
• When obtaining the quotes, ask that the removal and disposal prices be listed separately in the event the homeowner wishes to do only a portion of the job himself.
• The homeowner may opt to remove the material himself, if the siding and/or roofing is in good condition. If the material is found to be friable, the homeowner may still elect to do the removal work but should exercise extreme caution to minimize exposure risks.
• Contact the permitted facility where you intend to dispose of the asbestos material.

Removal Procedure


The process of asbestos removal involves several steps starting with personal protection, and advancing through packaging to terminal disposal. The basic steps are as follows:

1. Protective clothing, eye protection, and respiratory protection should be used by persons involved in asbestos removal activity. If disposable clothing such as a tyvek suit is used, it should be treated as asbestos containing waste when disposed. If medically fit, at a minimum a half-face air purifying respirator approved by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) and equipped with High Efficiency Particulate Air filter (HEPA-type) asbestos cartridges should be worn. A dust mask does not offer adequate protection.
2. For commercial projects the use of barrier tape is required. For residential work performed by homeowners, the use of barrier tape is strongly recommended if in a congested area with little space between houses.
3. The use of plastic barriers over windows, doors, vents, etc...., would depend on the final disposition of the structure from which the material was being removed. If the building was inhabited, or going to be inhabited, the use of barriers might prove to be a good approach to fiber control. For an unoccupied, uninhabited structure it would not be necessary.
4. Place polyethylene on the ground surrounding the building to catch small pieces inadvertently broken off siding or shingles as they are removed. The Air Resources Division of the Department of Environmental Services recommends 10% as the maximum allowed breakage factor.
5. Start removal at the top and work down the sides of the building. In this manner, nail holes are exposed and nail heads can sometimes be pinched off to facilitate removal of shingles.
6. The removal methodology should utilize wetting techniques (misting) to minimize dust and fiber migration. This can be done effectively by adding 1 oz. of dish detergent to 1 gallon of water and applying the mix with a garden sprayer. Caution must be taken when misting in the vicinity of live electrical wiring.
7. Carefully remove the siding or roofing and gently place the material into double layered 6 mil thick polyethylene bags, or double lined cardboard drums or containers. The name of the generator and address at which the waste was generated must appear on each disposal container.
8. Wash off tools when the job is completed, restricting runoff to the immediate site.
9. Mist the polyethylene on the ground and carefully put it into the containers.
10. Dispose of material at a permitted landfill. REMEMBER: landfills approved for disposal of asbestos require 24 hours advance notice to properly handle the waste. Waste shipment records (WSR) are required by landfills and a respirator should be worn when handling asbestos waste.

The homeowner (or contractor removing the material) is responsible for safely transporting the securely packaged asbestos waste to a permitted landfill.
In summary, there are three major responsibilities that the homeowner accepts when doing the work himself:

1. Responsibility for the determination that the asbestos material is friable or non-friable.
2. Responsibility for the description of removal procedures, as necessary, to town authorities.
3. Responsibility for proper removal, transportation, and disposal of asbestos material.

Marcel

Now you tell me Marcel, I removed the asbestos roofing material off my parents house in the early 70's with a crowbar.

Guess the siding will have to be done by someone else.

[relliott]

When working for cable I can only guess how many times I went through the stuff.
Those long files hypnotize me,but I am surprised there was no mention of hosing the stuff down to cut or minimize the dust on removal.

[afrost]

Originally Posted by relliott

If I was looking for a home knowing all that expense and trouble was involved for what most likely is a small cheap middle class home I would not buy it.
Now how could I recommend my client do so?Hmmmmmmmm

robert, are you making buy/no buy recommendations to your clients?

unless it's cracking and friable, there's no issues with the siding and no health reasons to avoid it.
when it comes time to remove (say to put on an addition), a licensed abatement contractor can remove it. the costs are not that much greater for a licensed guy to dispose than if you were removing non-asbestos siding.

[relliott]

I would never do anything to affect the sale and was speaking on a forum.
Give me a little credit for brains andy.
The asbestos or (as best as I can guess) siding is a big deal if not expected, and since this may be totaly unexpected till you show up with report in hand I was wondering the best way to convey the news.
This is not a minor issue.By the way I bend backwards to never give an opinion on buy or not buy.You do not know of all the factors influencing a sale.

[Peter C. Russell]

What's wrong with asbestos siding if it's intact, that's like saying an older home with vinyl siding which has faded will cot allot to repair.

[ldapkus]

Originally Posted by prussell

What's wrong with asbestos siding if it's intact, that's like saying an older home with vinyl siding which has faded will cot allot to repair.

Asbestos roofing and siding have a lifespan of 75 - 100 years. Similar to slate but much cheaper.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by prussell

What's wrong with asbestos siding if it's intact, that's like saying an older home with vinyl siding which has faded will cot allot to repair.

Absolutely nothing. Asbestos siding is no big deal.

http://www.masscertifiedhomeinspections.com/?D=71

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Nice Website David;

Although I agree with you that there is no problem with asbestos siding, sometimes disposal and removal methods done by the common laymen could cause problems.

So, to add to this topic I have this to add.


Asbestos
Environmental
Fact Sheet

Print Version

ASB-91996

Asbestos Siding and Roofing Removal Guidelines
for Homeowners

General
Based on a number of health studies, the inhalation of asbestos fibers is known to cause several respiratory diseases and research shows that asbestos in any form may constitute a potential health hazard. When untouched, asbestos siding and roofing present a minimal health hazard because the asbestos fibers are bound in a cement type mixture. However, because inhalation is the exposure route of concern, it is important to prevent asbestos fibers from becoming airborne. The health hazard occurs when the siding or roofing is drilled, sawed, sanded, or broken and the fibers are released to the air.
The removal of siding and roofing can be legally performed by home owners, general contractors, or licensed abatement contractors as long as each does not violate the National Emissions Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP) and work complies with Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) regulations delineated in 29 CFR 1926.1101. NESHAP regulations prohibit any visible emissions of asbestos fibers. As of October 1, 1995 changes in the OSHA regulations require a "competent person" to supervise all asbestos projects and a negative initial exposure assessments must be performed before employees trained in compliance with 29 CFR 1926.1101 can perform asbestos roofing and siding work. It should be noted that if the home owner has tenants then the homeowner is responsible for occupants other than the immediate family and the same regulations that apply to contractors applies to the homeowner. Asbestos projects must be performed in a manner which conforms to the New Hampshire Solid Waste Rules.
Before deciding to proceed with what is believed to be an asbestos removal project, be sure that the roofing or siding actually contains asbestos. This can be verified by sending a small sample for laboratory analysis. If the siding/roofing does contain asbestos, be sure to become fully appraised of regulatory requirements before beginning the work. If the material is or becomes friable, (meaning it can be crushed by hand pressure) then it can only be removed by a licensed abatement contractor or the home owner doing the work himself. It is important to note that even under the best circumstances these procedures can be physically demanding and potentially dangerous. Breathing through a respirator places an additional stress on the heart and lungs. Employers are required to have employees medically tested and approved by a doctor to use a negative pressure respirator. For individual homeowners it would be prudent to seek a medical opinion prior to wearing such equipment. Protective clothing can become hot and restrict motion, requiring added care to be taken when working on ladders and in high places. Eye protection may result in reduced visibility. Caution must be taken around live wiring and electrical power when using the misting (water application) techniques to prevent visible emissions of asbestos fibers.
The homeowner (or contractor removing the material) is responsible for determining the condition of the asbestos material. If the asbestos siding or roofing is "non-friable" (meaning that it cannot be crushed to powder by hand pressure), the law considers it to be a solid waste which requires special handling and can be disposed of in landfill approved for that purpose with consent of the owner/operator. The asbestos wastes may not be placed in demolition landfills or "brush and stump" areas in the State of N.H.
There are strict regulations governing how asbestos is to be packaged, labeled, and transported to landfills permitted to accept asbestos (see Fact Sheet ASB-13). Arrangements for adhering to these provisions should be made prior to starting the job of removal.
In making a decision regarding the removal of asbestos roofing or siding, the homeowner should utilize the following tests to determine the associated health risks. If any part of the siding or roofing material can be crushed into powder by hand pressure, it is to be considered potentially dangerous. If no powder can be generated by hand pressure, the material is probably relatively safe. The removal procedure to be utilized is governed by the type and condition of the asbestos material. If there is any question as to the type of roofing material confirmation should be made by laboratory analysis.
The following strategy can be used as a guideline in developing a plan of action for removal and disposal of asbestos siding and roofing:

• Obtain quotes and recommendations from at least three removal contractors for removal and disposal of the siding or roofing.
• When obtaining the quotes, ask that the removal and disposal prices be listed separately in the event the homeowner wishes to do only a portion of the job himself.
• The homeowner may opt to remove the material himself, if the siding and/or roofing is in good condition. If the material is found to be friable, the homeowner may still elect to do the removal work but should exercise extreme caution to minimize exposure risks.
• Contact the permitted facility where you intend to dispose of the asbestos material. (See Fact Sheet ASB-14 which lists all facilities permitted to receive asbestos for disposal.)

Marcel

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Nice Website David;

Although I agree with you that there is no problem with asbestos siding, sometimes disposal and removal methods done by the common laymen could cause problems.


Marcel

Marcel,

Very often, homeowners do not even get involved in removing asbestos siding. I see a lot of asbestos siding covered over with other materials on an everyday basis.

My clients often ask me what they should do with asbestos siding if they were to change it. I always tell them to have the siding contractors simply go over the existing siding and not even consider removing it as the costs would be exorbitant.

The only probelem I see with covering the asbestos siding is the fact that installers of the new siding will be breathing in the floating asbestos dust while securing the new siding. And you know they're not fully protected when doing the installation.

[Peter C. Russell]

If the new siding is vinyl they should put 3/8 foam underlayment on before the siding, this levels the wall out to some extent and provided a vapor barrier.

Once the foam in up you would have very little contact with the old siding.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by prussell

If the new siding is vinyl they should put 3/8 foam underlayment on before the siding, this levels the wall out to some extent and provided a vapor barrier.

Once the foam in up you would have very little contact with the old siding.

They should, but they don't. Not here anyways.

[rwand1]

Asbestos exposure and health are related to long term exposure, not usually related to small infrequent low levels. While I am not saying its not dangerous, everyone assumes that a slight exposure will cause health problems, but again that depends on type of asbesos in my opinion.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by rwand1

Asbestos exposure and health are related to long term exposure, not usually related to small infrequent low levels. While I am not saying its not dangerous, everyone assumes that a slight exposure will cause health problems, but again that depends on type of asbesos in my opinion.

If they're installing siding over asbestos, I'm sure they're doing it more than once.