Bubbles in vinyl siding

[jharashinski]

I did a new home inspection on Friday and one of the major items was that the siding had some minor bubbling. The home owner told me when she told the builder about this the builder told her it had to do with the low e glass. This house is in a development and about 80 houses are effected. All of the homes have low e glass. I took some pics but the bubbles (reverse dents) dont really show. The bubbles are only on 2 sides and they are somewhat hard to see. Has anyone heard about low e glass effecting siding? My first thought is that a bad batch of siding was used in this deveolpment, but I could see how low e might effect this. Any thoughts?

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

More likely the vinyl siding was not nailed onto the sheathing properly (i.e. too tight and not allowing for expansion and contraction of the siding when the weather / temperature changes). I fail to see how the kind of window will adversely affect the siding material. Sounds like the typical answer some contractors use to blow smoke up a woman's (and some men) skirt. When one is unwilling to admit they screwed up; when you can't dazzle them with brilliance, just baffle them with BS.

http://www.abtco.com/kp_abtco/docs/A...tructions_.pdf

[mnahrgang]

That's what I was first thinking too, but if I remember correctly, someone had a thread that discussed this some time back. There were even some photos, of the areas of one home that were damaged because of the light/heat reflecting from the window of the neighboring home. (They were really close together.) Hopefully someone else will have saved that somewhere, and can share the link again.

[James F. McKee]

I'm going to go with Doug on this one John...it is a crying shame how they are getting away with installing siding these days...I can't see how window selection can have anything to do with sloppy work on the siding....jmo...jim

[David A. Andersen]

Looks like you have yourself a homework assignment John!
I suspect it has to do with reflection of adjacent reflective windows causing a refractive effect on adjacent siding!

Seeing as siding should not come in contact with the window under manufacturers installation procedures, it sounds like smoke and mirrors (as Doug and I have posted).

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Radiation is a piss poor method for heating; the intensity of radiation heat is diminished by the square of the distance. One reason fireplaces and space heaters are such poor sources of heat. In practical terms, this means that every time the distance is doubled, the heat intensity is decreased by on fourth. Unless these homes are within a couple of feet of each other, I am highly skeptical that reflected, or radiation heat is the culprit. If it proves to be the reason, the homeowners can now cook supper just outside the windows due to the intense heat from the windows.

[Michael Larson]

Interesting topic.

I found this VIDEO that explains the problem and potential causes including reflective under coatings.

[David A. Andersen]

It should be noted that this distortion is not necessarily associated directly with temperature exposure (i.e. air temperature) rather infrared exposure. As we know, infrared does not transmit through glass and is mostly reflected. Tools utilized to bend PVC pipe (such as those the traps and running traps for HVAC drains) utilize infrared exposure to soften the materials so they can be easily formed. If you directly expose PVC to a high temperature heat gun it will burn. If you expose it to the light emitting from the heat gun element it will become pliable without burning.
Damage from BBQ grills is often a result of IR emitting from the grill, not necessarily the hot gases venting from the grill. This damage occurs at great distances sometimes, when we would least expect it.

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

As David has mentioned, the source(reflection) is probably from the neighbor's window. If you can stand where the bubbling has occurred and visualize the path of the sun, you might be able to find out what window may be the culprit.
I've got a tool shed in the backyard which is painted white. Unfortunately, every summer, the grass just to the west of the shed ends up dying. Burning off due to the IR.

Jeff

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Interesting topic.

I found this VIDEO that explains the problem and potential causes including reflective under coatings.

First saw that type of distortion in vinyl siding with reflection from a skylight about 12-13 years ago. The researcher in the video is off about a couple of things......it has nothing to do with the 6 mil vapour barrier and nothing to do with foil found underneath the siding. The houses we found it on had Tyvek over OSB sheathing.

But the poster was talking about "bubbles"......was he talking about solar reflection distortion or another manufacturing defect?

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

In all likelihood, it is due to improper nailing. How many siding jobs are actually installed correctly............very few.

Did you check the siding, to see if the panels in question had sufficient room to move and that the nails were properly set?

Jeff

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Pictures of the particular siding we are discussing would have been "groovy" but apparently the "bubbles" were not significant enough to even show in a photo. The video is very interesting and informative and the distortion very obvious and significant. I have never witnessed this phenom but have seen many where the old BBQ grill was too close.

[Peter C. Russell]

One thing that has not been mentioned is he said there where 80 homes in the subdivision that where effected. I would think it was a MFG. defect because to reproduce the same scenario on that many homes is unlikely.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Some may not know it but there are different grades of vinyl siding as well. Particularly in hurricane prone areas the recommendation is for the highest grade. If you have ever had to unzip some of the really good stuff you will immediately see the differences.

[jharashinski]

Originally Posted by prussell

One thing that has not been mentioned is he said there where 80 homes in the subdivision that where effected. I would think it was a MFG. defect because to reproduce the same scenario on that many homes is unlikely.

But the 80 or so homes have had this happen over an 8 yr period. Some, I found out later, had parts of the siding replaced only for it to happen again. Since I found out that it has happened over an 8 yr period, I'm leaning away from installation or manufacturing defects. On the house I inspected, only 2 sides were effected and the defects seemed to be confined within a general area. The bubbles were really subtle. Not very easy to see right away. To see them you have to be on an angle. I can see how with the direction of the sun, the color of the siding, and the reflection from the low e glass, the siding could bubble up a bit. My first thought was it was a manufactiers defect or installation problem, but I think I have to give the builder a pass on this one. I'm interested in how many people ran across this type of issue with low e glass.