Cement poured against Hardi Siding

[James E. Braun, CMI]

You got to love Dan.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by jbraun

You got to love Dan.

Yes, those of us that have been around for a while do love Dan...even if it is from a distance.

Some others may benefit from his use of emoticons, however.

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by sgreen2

I wouldn't tell anyone the siding warranty would be void. I don't see where this situation would void the siding. Things are not always text book perfect. For this specific situation, I would rather see the concrete poured against the cement siding, which goes all the way down to the bottom. Any water would run all the way down. If it were flashed, with 1 - 2 inch gap, like shown in the text book, water could run below the flashing, and on to raw wood. Then you would have real problems. So, in my opinion, I'd say it depends on all factors. Personally, I think they did a nice job.

Yeah, the moisture that accumulates between the siding and the moisture barrier and will now stop right about at the rim joist where the concrete steps stop it ,will not be a bother at all.

Just like insurance companies that will do anything to avoid paying a claim, or any other manufacturer that will deny a claim based on improper installation, what do you think Hardie will do when a claim comes in? Think they will pay out thousands or tens of thousands of dollars when their product was not installed per their installation instructions? Those clients are depending on a "50 year warranty". And you won't tell them it may be void due to the improper installation? Interesting point of view.

[sgreen2]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

Yeah, the moisture that accumulates between the siding and the moisture barrier and will now stop right about at the rim joist where the concrete steps stop it ,will not be a bother at all.

Just like insurance companies that will do anything to avoid paying a claim, or any other manufacturer that will deny a claim based on improper installation, what do you think Hardie will do when a claim comes in? Think they will pay out thousands or tens of thousands of dollars when their product was not installed per their installation instructions? Those clients are depending on a "50 year warranty". And you won't tell them it may be void due to the improper installation? Interesting point of view.

Steve, I've been in the siding business for 30 plus years. Believe me, that situation will not void the warrantee. Why be an alarmist......Siding companies warrantee thier products from defects, blemishes, blistering, fading, cracking, separation of laminates, chalking, bubbles, profile defects, paint, etc.. The 50 year warrantee does not cover installations. Also, if the siding was installed properly, it should be below the rim joist. One more thing to think about; the cement steps were poured against cement siding, as well as cement foundation, then sealed. I know if it were flashed, the flashing would NOT go down beyond the rim joist. As a matter of fact, it would not be much further down than the top of the steps. Should the sealant crack at the flashing, water would travel past the flashing, and on to raw wood. Which would you rather have?? The text book version, which would rot the wood, as well as invite insects. Or, the extra protection of cement siding all the way to the bottom? Didn't someone also mention this situation had a roof over it. If it were ANY other siding than cement, I would surly bring it to attention.

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by sgreen2

Steve, I've been in the siding business for 30 plus years. Believe me, that situation will not void the warrantee. Why be an alarmist......Siding companies warrantee thier products from defects, blemishes, blistering, fading, cracking, separation of laminates, chalking, bubbles, profile defects, paint, etc.. The 50 year warrantee does not cover installations.

Not being an alarmist at all. Just informing and protecting my clients.

I am glad that Hardie makes cement siding for you. Up here, the only Hardie siding is made of cement materials and wood fibers. Break a piece and you can clearly see the fibers.

As for the warranty. This particular product can swell when in contact with water, one of the reasons for the 1/4" gap above the flashing, but then most lazy siding installers just leave it sitting on top of the flashing and then caulk the crap out of it. Leaving the moisture to go where?

When those laminates start to separate because of not following the installation instructions, the warranty that covers the delamination will be considered void by the manufacturer. They aren't going to pay out a dime because some lazy siding installer didn't follow the instructions. As with every other warranty for just about every other product. Nothing that is installed contrary to the manufacturers instructions will be covered by any type of warranty.

Let's see, from the Manufacturer's warranty (emphasis added) : "When used for its intended purpose, properly installed and maintained according to Hardie’s published installation instructions, the Product for a period of 50 years from the date of purchase"

Or maybe this section of the warranty will help.

The Product must be installed according to Hardie’s printed installation instructions and all building codes adopted by federal, state or local governments or government agencies and applicable to the installation. Failure to install and finish the product per the manufacturer’s published instructions may effect Product performance and voids the Warranty."

But then a good siding installer would know this. I guess 30 years in the business taught you nothing.

[mnicholet]

Don't care if it passed code. If it doesn't perform or if it is going to cause future problems including possible structural then it should be written up. The siding in question should have clearance as per manufacturer and YES it probably will make the warranty void especially if it starts staining and or showing signs of efflorescence.

What about the unprimed non manufactured cuts on james hardie products? I see them ALL the time, did that pass code? Sure it did BUT it will void the warranty. Don't you think you should tell your clients about a probable warranty exclusion?

We get paid to ring the alarm.

[sgreen2]

Originally Posted by mnicholet

Don't care if it passed code. If it doesn't perform or if it is going to cause future problems including possible structural then it should be written up. The siding in question should have clearance as per manufacturer and YES it probably will make the warranty void especially if it starts staining and or showing signs of efflorescence.

What about the unprimed non manufactured cuts on james hardie products? I see them ALL the time, did that pass code? Sure it did BUT it will void the warranty. Don't you think you should tell your clients about a probable warranty exclusion?

We get paid to ring the alarm.

OK, one last reply to this post. I'm not disputing what you all are saying. In most cases, I would say the same thing. What I am saying is; with years of experience in that specific trade, from what I can see in the picture, the home owner will never have a problem. That's what separates the average home inspector from the home inspector with years of hands on experience. I don't ring false alarms. See you on the next post.

[mnicholet]

3. Exclusions:

This Warranty does not cover damage or defects resulting from or in any way attributable to: (a) the improper storage, shipping, handling or installation of the Product (including, without limitation, failure of the Product to be installed in strict compliance with the terms and conditions set forth in Section 2 (c) of this warranty) and/or improper installation of studs or other accessories; (b) neglect; (c) abuse; (d) misuse; (e) repair or alteration; (f) settlement or structural movement and/or movement of materials to which the Product is attached; (g) damage from incorrect design of the structure; (h) exceeding the maximum designed wind loads; (i) acts of God including, but not limited to, hurricanes, tornados, floods, earthquakes, severe weather or other natural phenomena, (including, but not limited to, unusual climate conditions); (j) efflorescence or performance of any paints and/or coatings which are not Hardie and/or Hardie affiliated applied; (k) growth of mold, mildew, fungi, bacteria, or any organism on any surface of the siding (whether on the exposed or unexposed surfaces) and in this respect, ANY CLAIMS OF DAMAGE CAUSED BY MOLD OR MILDEW ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED; (l) lack of proper maintenance; (m) any cause other than manufacturing defects attributable to Hardie.