Cleaning out moisture between window panes

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Anyone actually ever see the before and after results of some of the window repair companies that do this. There are a few local companies that offer this with warranty.... drill small holes in the pane, clean the fog/condensation, install one-way valves in the holes and then bring the r-value somewhat near to the original argon gas. If anyone has had any work done involving this let me know. I'd like to give this as a possible correction rather than having brand new windows installed.

Jeff

[Bobby Hamilton]

If you know thwe manufacturer of the window, its cheaper to order just a top or bottom sash. You will usually find a tag either on the sash itself or if you lower the top sash it's on the frame above it. Sometimes they are on the screen frame. Some sashes depending on their brand can either be ordered from a local Home Depot, Lowe's, or local dealer at a fraction of the cost. I've seen some go for $30-$60 depending on size and options in them.

[jkogel]

I'm told the repair is temporary, so a waste of money. FE, If the original seals were blown by heat from the sun, the little plugs don't stand much of a chance, IMO.
I would never recommend a repair, leave that for the realtor.

I tell clients that the glass panes can be replaced, rather than pulling the whole frame out. Also point out if it's a removable slider, these can be brought to the glass shop to have the panes replaced.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca

[Douglas Cossar]

This repair system really does work!

I've seen several windows repaired this way and it's a lot cheaper than replacing a window or sash.

In actual fact the seals are never "blown" Silicate is installed between the panes under the spacer strip when the window is manufactured. The silicate becomes saturated, over time, and looses it ability to absorb the condensation between the panes.

This repair method allows the moisture to escape from the space between the panes and it also allows the silicate to dry out. Therefore no more foggy windows.

True..... the argon goes away as well but you can see outside

I do mention the process whenever I come across foggy thermopane windows.

Cheers

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Thanks for the info guys. I had a realtor ask me about this process when I came across some fogged over panes.

Jeff

[jkogel]

Jeffrey, two things I've noticed, 1 The older thin designs fog up a lot. 2 The most often fogged windows are those on the south and west sides of the house. My theory is that the gas expands in the heat and blows the seals. Then moist air gets sucked in when the panes cool. I repeat, that's my theory.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca

[Bob Elliott]

Anybody have a link for one or two of these outfits?
Is there a guarantee?

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Originally Posted by relliott

Anybody have a link for one or two of these outfits?
Is there a guarantee?

Found a link to video of them cleaning between the panes.

Bob... here's one outfit that's in our area.

Jeff

[Larry D. Kage]

Cost is 1/2 to 2/3 of new window, has a 20 year limited (whatever that means)warranty and I don't think it works on tempered glass.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by jkogel

I'm told the repair is temporary, so a waste of money. FE, If the original seals were blown by heat from the sun, the little plugs don't stand much of a chance, IMO.
I would never recommend a repair, leave that for the realtor.

I tell clients that the glass panes can be replaced, rather than pulling the whole frame out. Also point out if it's a removable slider, these can be brought to the glass shop to have the panes replaced.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca

The problem is not blown seals, but saturated desiccant behind the aluminum strip.
Thermal pumping caused by the space between panes expanding when the sun hits it and contracting when it cools introduces moisture-carrying air into the area between the panes. That's why windows in sunny areas tend to fail first. The pumping action is more extreme.
The desiccant eventually becomes saturated and moisture condenses on the panes.

This fix includes removing stains from the double panes and evaporating moisture from the desiccant. With the desiccant dry, it should be good to go for a while as long as the holes can be plugged sufficiently.

[Charles L. Harper]

I have literally taken these types of windows apart. If they have been stained for any length of time, they WILL NOT come clean. The water stains on the glass WILL NOT come off. Maybe if they are repaired very early on, immediately after the first sign of water stains, they might come clean. BUT not after any length of time.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by charper

I have literally taken these types of windows apart. If they have been stained for any length of time, they WILL NOT come clean. The water stains on the glass WILL NOT come off. Maybe if they are repaired very early on, immediately after the first sign of water stains, they might come clean. BUT not after any length of time.

I think you're right Charles. We should get a vendor posting here telling us just what they can and can't do. Why don't you find us a good one, please.

[David P. Valley]

Here are a couple of National companies that will repair thermal windows that have condensation issues.

http://www.defogit.com/

http://www.allclearwindow.com/foggy_window_repair.htm

IMO, I would simply remove the sash in question, and bring it to my local window installer. I had one thermal pane replaced last year and it cost me $80.00. Compared that price to the price of removing the condensation.

The repair choice is obvious.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by kshepard

The problem is not blown seals, but saturated desiccant behind the aluminum strip.
Thermal pumping caused by the space between panes expanding when the sun hits it and contracting when it cools introduces moisture-carrying air into the area between the panes. That's why windows in sunny areas tend to fail first. The pumping action is more extreme.
The desiccant eventually becomes saturated and moisture condenses on the panes.

This fix includes removing stains from the double panes and evaporating moisture from the desiccant. With the desiccant dry, it should be good to go for a while as long as the holes can be plugged sufficiently.

Kenton,

How's it going Bud?

Just to give an update so everyone is aware as to how these panes do actually fail. The desiccants do become saturated (as Kenton mentioned) but it is not the only reason why thermal panes fail. It is definitely a contributing factor but the seals also fail due to the deterioration and breakdown of the adhesive sealant which then allows warm and cold air to infiltrate the air space between the sealed layers of glass. This seal can be compromised during the manufacturing process, movement of the sash while it is in warehouse or even during the shipping and installation process.

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by kshepard

The problem is not blown seals, but saturated desiccant behind the aluminum strip.
Thermal pumping caused by the space between panes expanding when the sun hits it and contracting when it cools introduces moisture-carrying air into the area between the panes. That's why windows in sunny areas tend to fail first. The pumping action is more extreme.

Thanks, Kenton. That sounds like a blown seal to me. I expect this pumping action to be hard on the little plugs they put in, resulting in moist air between the panes again, saturating the dessicant. That looks like a temporary fix to me.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca