Concrete Porch abutting siding

[Carl A. Brown]

It is #5 in the red!


IRC

R613.5.1 Anchoring requirements. Window and glass
door assemblies shall be anchored in accordance with the
published manufacturer.s recommendations to achieve the
design pressure specified. Substitute anchoring systems
used for substrates not specified by the fenestration
manufacturer shall provide equal or greater anchoring per-
formance asdemonstrated by accepted engineering practice.

R703.1 General. Exterior walls shall provide the building
with a weather-resistant exterior wall envelope. The exterior
wall envelope shall include flashing as described in Section
R703.8. The exterior wall envelope shall be designed and
constructed in such a manner as to prevent the accumulation
of water within the wall assembly by providing a water-resis-
tive barrier behind the exterior veneer as required by Section
R703.2.

R703.2 Weather-resistant sheathing paper. Asphalt-satu-
rated felt free from holes and breaks,weighing not less than 14
pounds per 100 square feet (0.683 kg/m2) and complyingwith
ASTM D 226 or other approved weather-resistant material
shall be applied over studs or sheathing of all exterior walls as
required by Table R703.4. Such felt or material shall be ap-
plied horizontally, with the upper layer lapped over the lower
layer not less than 2 inches (51 mm). Where joints occur, felt
shall be lapped not less than 6 inches (152 mm).
Exception: Such felt or material is permitted to be omitted
in the following situations:
1. In detached accessory buildings.
2. Under panel siding with shiplap joints or battens.
3. Under exterior wall finish materials as permitted in
Table R703.4.
4. Under paperbacked stucco lath.

R703.8 Flashing.Approved corrosion-resistive flashing shall
be provided in the exterior wall envelope in such a manner as
to prevent entry of water into the wall cavity or penetration of
water to the building structural framing components. The
flashing shall extend to the surface of the exterior wall finish
and shall be installed to prevent water from reentering the ex-
terior wall envelope. Approved corrosion-resistant flashings
shall be installed at all of the following locations:
1. At top of all exterior window and door openings in such
a manner as to be leakproof, except that self-flashing
windows having a continuous lap of not less than11/8
inches (28 mm) over the sheathing material around the
perimeter of the opening, including corners, do not re-
quire additional flashing; jamb flashing may also be
omitted when specifically approved by the building of-
ficial.
2. At the intersection of chimneys or other masonry
constructionwith frameor stuccowalls,with projecting
lips on both sides under stucco copings.
3. Under and at the ends of masonry, wood or metal cop-
ings and sills.
4. Continuously above all projecting wood trim.
5. Where exterior porches, decks or stairs attach to a wall
or floor assembly of wood-frame construction.
6. At wall and roof intersections.
7. At built-in gutters.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by john bubber

Homebild,

when it comes to basement waterproofing, quite a few builders and the codes/code officials are to blame, they sure as hell are.

yet another brilliant builder thought he could add an addition against the back wall and by doing so he assumed it would keep all ground water away from the basement wall that was already leaking, has vertical and horizontal cracks `n efflorescence.....big mistake.

waterproof the exterior of the wall BEFORE building the stupid addition will ya please! And backfill it with peastone. Why can`t most of these builders think ahead a lil bit.

now the homeowner has no choice but to install a waterdiverting inside system to try and keep water off the bsmt FLOOR, a system that does not stop/prevent further water-moisture from entering through-the-wall/through the cracks on outside of hollow block wall, and so it the efflorescence will continue and possibility of mold growing on wall/paneling will always be there.

so too is the possibility of termites/insects entering cracks that were left open/unsealed...brilliant. there are a couple of big trees 15-20' away from this wall, subsoil-roots could be part of problem, may be growing against the wall. clay is still against the outside of wall, yeah, expand `n contract.

waterproofing codes are bllchtt. when having their round table code discussions they never want to consult the true experts, somehow believing they are more than capable, its obvious most don`t GET-IT and/or don`t care.

these are the same people who think its sufficient to put a cork in rod holes and maybe damproof the exterior of walls, wrong again.

Mark comes through again...thank you.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by homebild

Well, marcel, you can presume whatever you want, but I am a 30 year homebuilder, code official and inspector and know what I am talking about.

No one has YET answered just HOW this concrete porch butted up against the vinyl siding will or has caused any problems.

HOW? WHY?

Michael D Thomas: ...for starters that situation is a prescription for creating *massive*termite infestation before damage is discovered.

Larry Kage: Typically, there is OSB type sheathing behind the siding with white wood framing and these will rot quickly with moisture running down the crack between the concrete and siding.

Me: Moisture will find its way between concrete and siding. Because lack of air flow will prevent it from evaporating, moisture levels will eventually activate mold fungus, wood wall assembly members will begin to decay and mold spore concentrations in indoor air will rise some.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by kshepard

Michael D Thomas: ...for starters that situation is a prescription for creating *massive*termite infestation before damage is discovered.

Larry Kage: Typically, there is OSB type sheathing behind the siding with white wood framing and these will rot quickly with moisture running down the crack between the concrete and siding.

Me: Moisture will find its way between concrete and siding. Because lack of air flow will prevent it from evaporating, moisture levels will eventually activate mold fungus, wood wall assembly members will begin to decay and mold spore concentrations in indoor air will rise some.

Thanks, Kenton.

[scosta]

I did find 2 more pictures, I knew they were somewhere.
Steve

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by scosta

I did find 2 more pictures, I knew they were somewhere.
Steve

What the hell were they thinking when they poured those areas?Attachment 14323

[Carl A. Brown]

David,

They were not thinking!

[Carl A. Brown]

I was wrong.

The concrete guys were thing the Beer was getting hot.


The ones I know anyway!

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by cbrown1

David,

They were not thinking!

From what I'm seeing on a daily basis here in Massachusetts, not many contractors/homeowners put some serious thought or planning into their projects.

I've got many pics to prove it. But let's not go there, there's too many.

[kmiller1]

There is another problem with this. That siding is not going to last as long as it should. The ability to expand and contract due to temperature changes has been severely comprimised. I didn't look at where this was, but in MI that siding will crack.

The concrete will also wick the ground moisture up, and if there is any wood to concrete contact, kiss the wood goodbye.

[Carl A. Brown]

David,

I have a website full of them myself!

[homebild]

Originally Posted by john bubber

Homebild,

when it comes to basement waterproofing, quite a few builders and the codes/code officials are to blame, they sure as hell are.

yet another brilliant builder thought he could add an addition against the back wall and by doing so he assumed it would keep all ground water away from the basement wall that was already leaking, has vertical and horizontal cracks `n efflorescence.....big mistake.

waterproof the exterior of the wall BEFORE building the stupid addition will ya please! And backfill it with peastone. Why can`t most of these builders think ahead a lil bit.

now the homeowner has no choice but to install a waterdiverting inside system to try and keep water off the bsmt FLOOR, a system that does not stop/prevent further water-moisture from entering through-the-wall/through the cracks on outside of hollow block wall, and so it the efflorescence will continue and possibility of mold growing on wall/paneling will always be there.

so too is the possibility of termites/insects entering cracks that were left open/unsealed...brilliant. there are a couple of big trees 15-20' away from this wall, subsoil-roots could be part of problem, may be growing against the wall. clay is still against the outside of wall, yeah, expand `n contract.

waterproofing codes are bllchtt. when having their round table code discussions they never want to consult the true experts, somehow believing they are more than capable, its obvious most don`t GET-IT and/or don`t care.

these are the same people who think its sufficient to put a cork in rod holes and maybe damproof the exterior of walls, wrong again.

That may be so yet no one has established such facts in this case....

So you are just 'guessing' along with the original, and apparantly, misguided original poster....!!

[homebild]

Originally Posted by lkage

I understand your points and I can't see how pouring concrete up onto siding, where ever it is, could be perfectly fine.

So show me where, from building codes, manufacturer's installation instructions, or any other "standard" that supports your allegations, and I'll believe you.

Otherwise, you are simply making up and fantasizing your own same rules and imaginings as do too many home inspectors without any basis of their opinions in any facts or reality...and why their opinions are so easily and routinely overturned by those electricians, plumbers, and builders (like me) whom they refer their clients to to confirm or deny their remarks.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by homebild

So show me where, from building codes, manufacturer's installation instructions, or any other "standard" that supports your allegations, and I'll believe you.

Otherwise, you are simply making up and fantasizing your own same rules and imaginings as do too many home inspectors without any basis of their opinions in any facts or reality...and why their opinions are so easily and routinely overturned by those electricians, plumbers, and builders (like me) whom they refer their clients to to confirm or deny their remarks.

You, homebild, are saying that pouring concrete on top of siding is fine...I simply disagree. You seem to be making too many assumptions about the picture posted...

Common sense suffices but that, apparently, is foreign to you.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Larry, you are correct, commen sense prevails most of the time.

People like Home Builder is out to the letter of the law, and most probably is how he makes his business flourish, by building to the minimum. That is why he is a Code Enforcer. Now he knows what to get away with.

Commen sense to others is providing detailed work that meets or supercedes the relevant Codes, and common sense would tell anyone that you do not pour concrete against siding of any type material.

And this guy is a Builder, Wow!

Wonder if he could pass the NACHI enrollment test in 25-30 minutes?

Anyone that would condone pouring a concrete slab against a Home siding material, has got to be joking. It would worry me to take anything said from someone like that with a whole jar of salt.

Wonder how many people like that would procure business activities based on the non-prescriptive codes of the IRC.
I think I know one now. ha. ha.

Marcel

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