Cracked Concrete Porch/No Footers

[James E. Braun, CMI]

That is the only good thing about Missouri home builders, they keep us Missouri inspectors busy. If it was not for most of the contractors not knowing what they are doing and the state of Missouri allowing this, I would have to make less money by doing Realtor referred home inspection. Huck!

[James E. Braun, CMI]

That is the only good thing about Missouri home builders, they keep us Missouri inspectors busy. If it was not for most of the contractors not knowing what they are doing and the state of Missouri allowing this, I would have to make less money by doing Realtor referred home inspection. Huck!

[Kevin M. Leonard]

Originally Posted by bboerner

All,

Did a recent inspection for one of our country's finest. He serves for us so lets see what we can do to help him out. Home was built about a year ago and when I did their 11 month warranty inspection the front porch had a very visible crack right dab down the middle of it. Client states builder admits no support such as footers was ever put in place before pouring the concrete and as a result he has changed his procedures to add for such support. Several attempts to repair the crack but all have failed so far. Crack keeps reappearing. What he is looking for is possible solutions for repair before making the decision to simply tear off the existing porch and having it built as it should be. Any help would be greatly appreciated. See pics below.

That crack in and of itself does not "appear" to be a big deal. But if the builder admitted he did not install a footer that extends below the frost line it most likely will get worse with time & very well may result in structural issues.

I can't speak for MO but in OH, most if not all Builders have a 1 year warranty for all defects & a 10 year warranty for all structural defects on new construction - granted the Builder is still in business.

If the Builder won't make the proper repairs or is trying to get by on the cheap, I would recommend that buyer contact an attorney.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

http://www.askthebuilder.com/010_1__...portance.shtml

[Tim Spargo]

I ran into Tim C. a few times in the 90's @ different conventions/certifications etc in Vegas. Nice guy. No one's perfect on their advice, but his is usually decent.

[Robert W. Jude]

It doesnt need torn off and rebuilt, it needs a temporary support and some proper footings installed. you will need a structural engineer to design it. It shouldnt be over 2-3k

[Randy L. Mayo, PE]

Billy

The contractor admitted the problem and knows the solution... I would advise your client to have the porch removed and rebuilt with the proper footing. Be advised the problem may be attributed to placing the slab on a poorly compacted fill, so insist on recompacting the soil before building a new porch.

[Brad Beel]

Gentleman,
Thank you all for your prompt responses. Billy, I appreciate you putting our situation up for discussion. My wife and I are the affected parties. We were wondering if you guys could see any situation where piering supports/mudjacking/etc. under the columns would be a potential option. Also, if these options could properly support the deck then could we epoxy inject the crack? The previous skim coats and epoxy coatings applied by the contractor have all failed within 48 hours, but the crack has not grown in size in the year since we built the house. To give some background, the masonry contractor only waited 48 hours after the porch was poured until he put the stone on the columns. There was a squared footing around the perimeter of the slab poured and rock sits in the middle. However, there were not individual footings and the new houses constructed by this builder all have individual supports due to our situation.

We obviously would love to avoid ripping off the porch, retaining wall, irrigation system, etc. However, we don't want to be in the house 10 years from now an have major structural issues outside of our builders warranty. I don't know how specific any potential piering companies warranty would be or what it would entail. We were holding out hope there was an option that would provide the support for the porch without the "nuclear option." If the porch would be properly supported we would push the builder to install decking over the porch.
Thanks again for all of your help and advice,
Brad

[Gary Farnsworth]

Cracks like that are normal, and seen in every home that I have inspected over 10 years here in KC. Normal shrinkage. Concrete is not what it used to be, IMHO (Temple in Rome is still standing after thousands of years, and made from unre-enforced concrete). The only way to tell if the concrete was poured correctly is to tear it out and start over. I never get concerned here with cracks like that, unless heaving is noted; one side higher than the other. Again, this is normal here. Suggest epoxy sealing. Document, refer, move on. Most newer concrete takes years to really set, dry, and will crack as it does.

Builders only give one year warranties here in KC. Expansive soils and extreme weather cause alot of concrete cracks. No access under porch due to ground/soil. Only way to tell if there is proper footing is to tear it out, and look. Observe, document, done. If I knew for sure some piece of concrete was going to last 10 years, I would be working in the stock or gold markets. No one can tell if something will last one week or 10 years. Same with being married. No matter how you fix it, it will probablly crack again. Nature of concrete, and life.

If you replace it, it could crack and settle again. And, it may have settled now, and will not move any further. No one knows. Some city/county code inspector had to approve it; blame him. Right.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

What I would be interested in is a cross-section detailed drawing of this whole construction area.
Someone had to design it.
But even in the best designs, the hairline crack in the photo is negligible for concrete whether it is on grade or on a foundation.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

I have a feeling there was a proper design drawn up but the contractor choose to ignore it. Like Randy says the only way is to tear it out and start over. Installing steel piers just under the porch will cause problems when the rest of the house settles. Mud jacking will not stay in an application such as this.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

If the problem is lack of support, that means the soil beneath the slab is consolidating and the concrete will continue to settle and the crack will reappear until the soil consolidates enough to become stable.

Dry shrinkage, shrinkage after the concrete hardens, can continue for months after the concrete has been placed and has to do with the original water content of the design mix, usually related to relatively low water content.

If the problem were just improper support, I'd expect to see cracks emanating from the posts, since that's where the majority of the structural load is, that's where the settling should be worst. A crack down the center of an open area seems more consistent with shrinkage cracking. Once a dry shrinkage crack has developed, it takes much less stress for it to propagate (grow). If shrinkage cracking is the problem it should stop soon.

If it's shrinkage cracking it shouldn't be more than 1/8-inch deep. If the slab is sagging because of lack of underlying support, the crack would start on the bottom and propagate toward the top and some sagging should be visible.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Concrete injection.
Slab jacking
They can try to slab jack the landing in several places to see if it takes.
Sure beats demo and rebuild.
http://www.concretenetwork.com/concr...ab_jacking.htm

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Originally Posted by mcyr

What I would be interested in is a cross-section detailed drawing of this whole construction area.
Someone had to design it.
But even in the best designs, the hairline crack in the photo is negligible for concrete whether it is on grade or on a foundation.

I agree. negligible. Possible Shrinkage.
If they installed relief cut that crack might still appear only be hidden by the cut.I agree. Land slope should be evaluated before any more repairs are executed.