Egress code

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Peter...

This may satisfy the AHJ...

http://www.fireescapesystems.com/products.asp

And help your wallet.

Jeff

[Michael R. Boyett]

I'd say the original plans examiner dropped the ball on this and approved your plans in error. Or, the framing inspector is interpreting the AHJ revised rules differently than the plans examiner did. You might be able to appeal your case and get a variance but it will likely be easier just to change or add the window. I'd definitely obtain a copy of the ordinance modifying that egress requirement just to make sure of the wording.

[Peter C. Russell]

Thanks Jeff and Mike.
Mike your probably right but I like to understand why my plans can be approved but not acceptable after the fact. In most cases these battles are rarely won but I do like to professionally challenge building inspectors and debate the pros's and con's of the subject. I think they like the challenge as well when it's done in a professional manner.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Peter, you're exactly right. BTW, I looked at your town's website and realized it's pretty small place. Is the building inspection dept a one man operation? Also, did you have the plans drawn up by an architect? Isn't his stamp on the drawings? Doesn't he share some of the blame here? What's he going to do to help correct the problem?

[jking2]

I would love to see photos of that house without windows. Who lives there, Count Dracula?

Jim King

[Peter C. Russell]

Well they shot me down on all counts. they have adopted a life safety code that says every habitable room in the house must have two forms of egrees, So I'm installing a egrees window in the gable end wall.

Anybody want to buy a new 60x52 double hung/double mulled window with 6/6 grids and low e glass?

The funny thing is that these folks can go into their house go to bed without a single egrees window but when they want to use their new bonus room they have to have it. The house next door just got completely renovated, new roof, new windows, new siding, kitchen, flooring ETC, but guess what! because they did not exceed 50% of the buildings value in renovations they are exempt from bringing it up to code.

This is by the way a crock of you know what. The guy that bought it is a contractor, it was foreclosed on, I'm sure he pulled the permit as the homeowner doing the renovations at a low balled price to avoid the codes and still had his crew do the job.

So my clients have to have an egress window to watch TV and the house next door does not have a single egress window in it, not even the bedrooms. Go figure!!

[Richard A. Hetzel]

I presume the previous poster is a design professional. The building codes are quite clear on what must be done in new construction, and what must be done in repairs, renovations, rehabilitations, and reconstruction. One must do a lot more than cosmetic work in order to exceed the maximums of the code. Also, even if all windows are being replaced, the code states in "AJ102.4 Replacement windows. Regardless of the category of work, when an entire existing window, including frame, sash and glazed portion is replaced, the replacement window shall comply with the requirements of..." the energy code section of the code. No mention is made of a requirement to meet the egress window requirements in a renovation. Had the neighbor constructed an addition to the house, then any room in the addition would have been required to conform fully to the code.

The municipal supplement to the building code should be read for any exemtions having to do with existing buildings or any requirement that it applies to new construction only. It is always possible that a code official "blew the call".

[Eric Bethel]

I am a fireman and a home inspector, the rules generally are that you need 2 forms of egress from any living area. Bedrooms and living area's need a window ( correct dimensions ) and a door. The second story living area needs a window due to the fact,that if fire is at or around the stairs how would you get out without a window. Remember most city inspectors when called to inspect something you open yourself up to everything for them to inspect.

[Nick Gromicko]

http://www.nachi.org/emergencyegress...leased2007.htm

[Jason A. Sieg, CMI]

Originally Posted by ebethel

I am a fireman and a home inspector, the rules generally are that you need 2 forms of egress from any living area. Bedrooms and living area's need a window ( correct dimensions ) and a door. The second story living area needs a window due to the fact,that if fire is at or around the stairs how would you get out without a window. Remember most city inspectors when called to inspect something you open yourself up to everything for them to inspect.

My mothers house has a walk out basement with a basement level garage.
The garage has 2 single car bay doors, 1 side entrance door & 1 entrance door to the basement.
The basement has the staircase, a rear entrance and 2, 12'x5' windows. One on each side of the rear door.

She rents rooms out in her home. She lives in the basement. She had a tenant who called the fire dept. to inspect her home... (Tennant was upset that my mother gave her eviction papers.)

Long story short, the firemen told the tenant to put the batteries back in the smoke alarms that she removed, (They found them in her room on her desk) and after checking the entire house saw nothing wrong.

Note: In the basement they said that the back door & the stairs were my mothers egresses. They said that the door leading to the garage is not an acceptable egress. Just thought I would throw that in the pot here. I just thought it was strange that the stairs (with a door at the top of the stairs) was OK but, the door to the garage was not... Either way you would need to go through two doors to exit the house.

[Richard A. Hetzel]

A required exit path of travel may not be through a garage.

"R311.4.1 Exit door required. Not less than one required exit door conforming to this section shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The required exit door shall provide for direct access to the exterior without requiring travel through a garage." (2003 IRC)

If your mother's house were to be built under current codes, a second means of egresss (Emergency Escape And Rescue Opening) would also be required in the basement, in the sleeping room.

[Jason A. Sieg, CMI]

Originally Posted by Richard A. Hetzel

A required exit path of travel may not be through a garage.

"R311.4.1 Exit door required. Not less than one required exit door conforming to this section shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The required exit door shall provide for direct access to the exterior without requiring travel through a garage." (2003 IRC)

If your mother's house were to be built under current codes, a second means of egresss (Emergency Escape And Rescue Opening) would also be required in the basement, in the sleeping room.

Yes, when I finished her basement for her I built the bed room at the opposite end of the house of the garage at the rear of the house. One of the two large windows is her bed room legal egress. The basement living space is over 1800 sq ft. The upstairs is a ranch home with 5 bedrooms and 2 full baths and a laundry. Two bed rooms & one bath are above the garage. The basement is only one bedroom, full bath, kitchen & laundry.

Like I said a big house.

[homebild]

Originally Posted by mboyett

Peter, some times the AHJ looks at the proposed room not as what you call it but rather how it might be used by future occupants. I suspect he is surmising the Family Room could potentially be a sleeping room in the future therefore he wants to see an egress window. What's the issue?

Michael Boyett has got the right call on this one.

The IRC section R310 has stated since 2000 that all 'sleeping rooms' require 'emergency escape and rescue openings' and a bonus room above a garage with no other way out ought to be considered a 'sleeping room' and should should have an emergency escape and rescue opening..

[homebild]

Originally Posted by mboyett

I'd say the original plans examiner dropped the ball on this and approved your plans in error. Or, the framing inspector is interpreting the AHJ revised rules differently than the plans examiner did. You might be able to appeal your case and get a variance but it will likely be easier just to change or add the window. I'd definitely obtain a copy of the ordinance modifying that egress requirement just to make sure of the wording.

[quote=prussel]Thanks Jeff and Mike.
Mike your probably right but I like to understand why my plans can be approved but not acceptable after the fact. In most cases these battles are rarely won but I do like to professionally challenge building inspectors and debate the pros's and con's of the subject. I think they like the challenge as well when it's done in a professional manner.[quote]

While the original plans examiner may hve missed this one, building codes are pretty much uniform on such issues and require the builder to build to code no matter what was 'approved' or 'disapproved' or 'ignored'.

Ultimately it is not the building code official that must comply with the Code, but the builder and the owner.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

[quote=homebild While the original plans examiner may hve missed this one, building codes are pretty much uniform on such issues and require the builder to build to code no matter what was 'approved' or 'disapproved' or 'ignored'.

Ultimately it is not the building code official that must comply with the Code, but the builder and the owner.[/quote]

Homebuild, I have to agree with you on this one.
I wish you could post with your real name though. I do not like to communicate with slang and fictional references.

I am faced with Building to Code on a daily basis, and the type of work I do is usually in the $6 million plus and designed by Engineers and Architects that are paid to design and make sure that it is up to Code Nationally and Locally.
The Specifications always have this clause included that says Contractor is liable to adhere to Local Codes and Regulations.

They are the Designers and the high paid White Collars, why should the Contractor be liable to make sure things are up to Code?? This is another one of those clauses or disclaimers that try to put the blame on someone else. Who can the Builder blame it on?

Everything gets brushed on to the shoulders of the Builder in this scenario, and between the Local Jurisdiction and the Engineers, they wipe their A#ss with silk cloth.

In too many ways have I had change orders in the Commercial World to correct deficient designs that do not uphold Code Compliance, that it is scary.
What happens when a Project gets built and the Superintendant is 25 years old or it is a sidewalk Inspector that is controlling the Quality Control?

It must be or turn out as a disaster.

To get back to the egress Code.

Commen Sense and NFPA 101 Chapter 24 which equals the same.

Marcel