Egress code

[Peter C. Russell]

One thing I did not mention is that most of NH goes by a second means of egress in every bedroom, this particular town adopted the rule to have two means of egrees in every habitable room. So my problem is they excepted my plans but did not inform me that the town had amended the code. This by the way is after the question whether or not I would put the footing below the frost line!

[homebild]

Originally Posted by prussell

One thing I did not mention is that most of NH goes by a second means of egress in every bedroom, this particular town adopted the rule to have two means of egrees in every habitable room. So my problem is they excepted my plans but did not inform me that the town had amended the code. This by the way is after the question whether or not I would put the footing below the frost line!

"Egress" and "Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings" are not the same thing and both have different meanings under the International Residential Codes.

Bedrooms and sleeping rooms normally require 1 "egress" opening and 1 "emergency escape and rescue opening".

This should not be confused with a bedroom being required to have 2 means of 'egress' from them.

"Egress" by definition allows exit to another part of the structure.
"Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings" must open to the outside of the structure.

Seems to me you are confused with Code semantics, and perhaps rightly so.

But under the IRC which is employed by most jurisdictions in New Hampshire, bedrooms do NOT require 2 means of egress, but rather 1 means of 'egress' and 1 means of 'emergency escape and recue opening'.

[Peter C. Russell]

You are correct, sorry about my wording, that was not my intent.

You seem to have missed my point that this town has adopted an amendment to the IRC and IBC, which is fine but they should do their job and reject the plans I gave them that clearly showed the windows and sizes I was using.

Another thing you have to realize is in 2002 NH adopted the 2000IBC then late last year added the 2000 IRC and on top of that any town can add any amendment they want to the codes, as a builder I have know idea what the town will require as special amendment's. That's why I supply them with a set of prints detailing the project.

I did a job in one town where the building inspector made me put three 1/2 dabb's of black jack under each shingle in the starter courses.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by prussell

I did a job in one town where the building inspector made me put three 1/2 dabb's of black jack under each shingle in the starter courses.

Peter, I think he was pulling your leg and flashing his badge.
You should have asked him to see the Amendments to the Code.
It is not even a requirement of the Manufacturer, unless you are in a high wind area and have a high pitched roof, where all the tabs would get a dab of black jack.

Next time, show him the Manufacturers Application Guide Instructions and ask him to to show you the Amendments of the same Code, and see what happens.

I bet you he will say DA, DA, DA, well, they are not available at this time. ha. ha.

Marcel
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[Marcel R. Cyr]

Peter;

I forgot to mention that if you use a starter course strip upside down like most, if you cut the tabs off and then place the stick tabs downward, there is your dab a do ah that the Code Enforcement will need. Then there is no more argument. ha. ha.

Marcel
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[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Peter;

I forgot to mention that if you use a starter course strip upside down like most, if you cut the tabs off and then place the stick tabs downward, there is your dab a do ah that the Code Enforcement will need. Then there is no more argument. ha. ha.

Marcel
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Marcel, did all that and no good, he wanted the black jack because he felt we were close enough to the ocean that a potential hurricane could hit us. That's no BS either.

I spoke at the Senate hearings in NH this year regarding registering contractors and I told them that part of a contractors problems is not knowing how to do a good job but the hoops we have to jump through to meet unexpected amendments in the codes.

My suggestion was to have a board where contractors can complain about asinine rule that building inspectors make up for their individual town.

It has to stop somewhere!

[Marcel R. Cyr]

I agree with you and I also get upset with this Political B. S. where some of these towns and Cities hire these hole'ose and give them all this authority and think they have the bull by the horns and do as they well please in interpretation of the Code when they do not have a clue. Believe you me, I have come across these Code Interpretation Geeks many times and I do not let my logic loose of any of their reading intelligence of the black and white, for that is all they see and have no clue of anything else. The minute the Code applies to a scenario that is different, from, what written, the first thing they will do is relate it to the closest thing they can find. Hey, I have the badge on my belt. Ha. I tell them, you need to tell me who your superior is, because we have an issue here and is obvious we are not going to settle it.


I have defended a Contractor in Court before and can do it again, but would also defend a Client from a Contractor if the Contractor was wrong. This comes into play when you wear both hats I guess, ha. ha.

I know Codes as well as these guys and don't forget that even if you did not know the Codes, if you were brought up as a Builder as I was which I think you may well be, we do not build to a lesser degree or close to meet Code anyways, so why worry about it.

This a point in time where we need to get involved maybe in participating in the Town or City Assessors Board Meetings to find out what the hell is going on.

Peter stay in touch.
Do you belong to the AGC? They might be able to help your situation.


Marcel


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[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by mcyr

I agree with you and I also get upset with this Political B. S. where some of these towns and Cities hire these hole'ose and give them all this authority and think they have the bull by the horns and do as they well please in interpretation of the Code when they do not have a clue. Believe you me, I have come across these Code Interpretation Geeks many times and I do not let my logic loose of any of their reading intelligence of the black and white, for that is all they see and have no clue of anything else. The minute the Code applies to a scenario that is different, from, what written, the first thing they will do is relate it to the closest thing they can find. Hey, I have the badge on my belt. Ha. I tell them, you need to tell me who your superior is, because we have an issue here and is obvious we are not going to settle it.


I have defended a Contractor in Court before and can do it again, but would also defend a Client from a Contractor if the Contractor was wrong. This comes into play when you wear both hats I guess, ha. ha.

I know Codes as well as these guys and don't forget that even if you did not know the Codes, if you were brought up as a Builder as I was which I think you may well be, we do not build to a lesser degree or close to meet Code anyways, so why worry about it.

This a point in time where we need to get involved maybe in participating in the Town or City Assessors Board Meetings to find out what the hell is going on.

Peter stay in touch.
Do you belong to the AGC? They might be able to help your situation.


Marcel


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Hi Marcel, thanks for the reply;

So if things where not bad enough I found out that our legislators have passed yet another bill in NH to adopted the 2006 IRC in app. 60 days.

So we have had 3 code changes in 4 years each allowing any town to make an amendment as they see fit.

I just can't keep up and yes I was a member of AGC but recently dropped them because I belong to too many orgs. and can't read everything they have to offer.

[arussell]

Pete
Too bad you didn't build that addition here in Mass (taxachusetts). Even though they've adopted the 2003 IRC they still are allowing "Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings" (double hung windows) to have a net clear opening of 3.3 sq. ft. providing at least one operable sash has the min. height and width.

[arussell]

homebild
Just so that we all aren't "confused with Code semantics" and are on the same page as to correct definitions - doesn't the IRC define Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings as "An operable window, door or similar device that provides for a means of escape and access for rescue in the event of an emergency" not "Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings" must open to the outside of the structure" as you stated, that statement sounds like the definition of "Means of Egress" of exit doors.
Just trying to help with some clarification.

Just as an FYI - as Peter stated the state of NH has adopted the 2000 ICC Codes including the IRC and IBC as their "State Building Code"

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by arussell

Pete
Too bad you didn't build that addition here in Mass (taxachusetts). Even though they've adopted the 2003 IRC they still are allowing "Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings" (double hung windows) to have a net clear opening of 3.3 sq. ft. providing at least one operable sash has the min. height and width.

Yeah I know, 1st the 2000 ibc, then the 2000irc, then the 2006irc.

Who can keep up!

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by arussell

homebild
Just so that we all aren't "confused with Code semantics" and are on the same page as to correct definitions - doesn't the IRC define Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings as "An operable window, door or similar device that provides for a means of escape and access for rescue in the event of an emergency" not "Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings" must open to the outside of the structure" as you stated, that statement sounds like the definition of "Means of Egress" of exit doors.
Just trying to help with some clarification.

Just as an FYI - as Peter stated the state of NH has adopted the 2000 ICC Codes including the IRC and IBC as their "State Building Code"

Alan, that is a good point. When I spoke to the building inspector he stated that I needed a second means of egress, so my interpretation was the 1st was the stairs leading to the room above the garage and the second was the window. The window that was in my plan had a clear opening of app. 4.2 Sq. feet and when I asked about an escape ladder they said no it had to be an egress window with a clear opening of 5.7 Sq. feet.

[arussell]

Originally Posted by prussell

Alan, that is a good point. When I spoke to the building inspector he stated that I needed a second means of egress, so my interpretation was the 1st was the stairs leading to the room above the garage and the second was the window. The window that was in my plan had a clear opening of app. 4.2 Sq. feet and when I asked about an escape ladder they said no it had to be an egress window with a clear opening of 5.7 Sq. feet.

Thanks Pete
But ya know the more I tought about your situation, the more I can understand where the Inspector is coming from. Scenario: the family is in the playroom above the garage, the car engine ignites and is engulf with flames, the stairs leading to the family room is next to the garage service door how do they get out or rescued? (don't forget the ol' man has a Maine sized beer belly just kiddin' Marcel). I'm sure having that heating unit up there had something to do with it, too.
Just another perspective

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by arussell

Thanks Pete
But ya know the more I tought about your situation, the more I can understand where the Inspector is coming from. Scenario: the family is in the playroom above the garage, the car engine ignites and is engulf with flames, the stairs leading to the family room is next to the garage service door how do they get out or rescued? (don't forget the ol' man has a Maine sized beer belly just kiddin' Marcel). I'm sure having that heating unit up there had something to do with it, too.
Just another perspective

I understand what your saying and I'm all for safety, but what about the fact they approved my plans with the window openings.

If they had a exception to the codes that's fine. But bring it to my attention before the building is all framed!!!!!! That's all I ask!!

[arussell]

Absolutely 100%!!!!!!!!!
They failed at your expense