Foundation bolts

[Jeremiah Anderson]

In my experience if one is missing then half a dozen are missing. It has been very rare for me to find only one nut missing. Its an all or nothing proposition because usually someone screwed up on the layout or the carpentry.

Yeah its not a code inspection, but come on, if its right there in plain view in an unfinished basement or garage then write it up and move on.

I once found a detached garage with 12 stalls in a condo development and the particular stall I was in was lacking the washers and nuts on top of the anchor bolts. I reported it and I found out it was later discovered that the entire garage along with the remaining three in the complex did not have washers and nuts--the association hired a contractor to come out and put them on. Yeah the place was about 15 years old and nothing had happened. I live in tornado alley here and if one were to come by that area that garage would be picked up and dropped onto a wicked witch somewhere and, unlike the movie, they wouldn't be thanking the home inspector who didn't report the missing washers and nuts for that.

Jeremiah
</IMG>

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by janderson

...the particular stall I was in was lacking the washers and nuts on top of the anchor bolts.

We all have to do what we're comfortable with. The advantage of the message boards is that inspectors are forewarned and can make an informed decision using their own judgement and experience.

In the situation you describe, I'd have called it out too.

[gbrasseur]

Not to belabor the issue ......but. If you say "why should someone pay"? Well in my humble opinion, if the darn builder wasn't SO CHEAP in the first place on an issue that at the time would have cost hime a few bucks, then now it WOULDN'T cost him quite a few bucks And he is paying the higher price for his own sloppy mistake ( to do something in plain view).

Respectfully,

[Jeremiah Anderson]

Ken--Agreed!

Amen to that Greg!

btw, nice website Greg.

[lewens]

Originally Posted by kshepard

Here's how I see it Greg...


Even in seismic zones like Southern California, where I lived for twenty years, working as a carpenter and installing tons of seismic hardware on homes... I don't think one missing nut of four is going to save the wall in a severe earthquake, or a hurricane, neither of which we have in Colorado.

With this attitude I can quickly see where the trades have gone. If it is OK to eliminate 25% of the anchor bolts the plumber says I will eliminate 25% of the staples to hold the piping, the electician says 25% of the staples to hold the wiring etc., etc.
In my estimation if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
Larry

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by lewens

With this attitude I can quickly see where the trades have gone. If it is OK to eliminate 25% of the anchor bolts the plumber says I will eliminate 25% of the staples to hold the piping, the electician says 25% of the staples to hold the wiring etc., etc.
In my estimation if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
Larry

That's 25% of the 4 nutted bolts in one wall, not 25% of all anchor bolts. Instead of 55 nutted bolts, the house has 55 bolts and only 52 have nuts on them. You can bet there ar a lot of homes out there in which the electrician has left out three staples that should be there without puting the home at risk. Would you call each missing staple?

The scenario had nothing to do with eliminating 25% of the home systems, the problem has to do with the economics of building.

The builder takes low bid on the framing. The framer comes in and is getting paid low dollar and on a few bolts in the home that are difficult to get nuts on he says "I'm not getting paid for this, I'm not doing it".

The builder takes low bid to compete with other builders in his market by keeping his costs down. If he's successful, he can offer the home for sale at a lower price.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by kshepard

It costs money to get someone to come out to fix insignificant details and I'd rather make repair recommendations about things I feel are real issues.

The person buying the house has already paid for all the anchor bolts to have nuts and washers installed properly. If they are not installed then the contractor is not fulfilling his obligation to the home buyer. They are not fixing anything really, they are finishing the job properly, just like they bid it.

IMO as an Inspector it is not my place to evaluate how many corners the builder is allowed to cut. I am there to inspect the house to the relevant specs/codes used to build the house.

Now if I was an Engineer and was drawing Engineer wages I might deviate from the code with regards to form,fit, and function.
</IMG>

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by kshepard

That's
The builder takes low bid to compete with other builders in his market by keeping his costs down. If he's successful, he can offer the home for sale at a lower price.

Isn't that the same as saying "you get what you paid for"?

I believe what Larry E. is trying to point across, is the fact that among all the sub-contractors involved in building the house, if they all make an effort as they do to skip or short change the total value of the property by unnoticeable standards of practice by 25%, the actual value of the House is no doubt 25% deficient.

You can usually start an equation when inspecting a property of the such by using the common multiplier. That means if it starts with missing nuts and washers on the anchor bolts, missing staples and missing hangers on the plumbing pipes, the list usually goes on and that is when you pay more attention to all the different trade installation. That multiplier is flabbergasting.

JMO.

Marcel
</IMG></IMG>

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Now if I was an Engineer and was drawing Engineer wages I might deviate from the code with regards to form,fit, and function.
</IMG>

Brian, would that explain why in the past few months on my job, I have been telling some Engineers to get better informed on Maine Codes? They are from Conn. and Mass..
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH., but wait, they have posted in the specifications that all work be performed per local and State Codes and AHJ requirements.

So they design it, but if it is not up to Code the Contractor is still getting it up the gazu. If you know what I mean. They do no evil nor harm. They are always right and all due to the CMA specifications.

Marcel
</IMG></IMG></IMG></IMG>

[Brian E. Kelly]

Marcell, I was taught as an Inspector that I was there to Inspect, period. Which to me means checking the building to the contract documents (plans/codes/specs).

Now if I am the Engineer of record, then not only can I inspect, but I can interpet, or deviate as necessary with sign off. And depending on the situation field Engineer the design to fit the circumstances.

I would not sign off on missing anchors. Where is the upside for me?????????

I like being an Inspector.

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

I looked back at Greg's original post... we're talking two nuts here. I think anyone who wants to call that... they should go ahead. I wouldn't, but inspectors are free to make their own decisions about what to call.

[gbrasseur]

Kenton,

Thanks for your feedback on this post. I appreciate your input.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by kshepard

I looked back at Greg's original post... we're talking two nuts here. I think anyone who wants to call that... they should go ahead. I wouldn't, but inspectors are free to make their own decisions about what to call.

Kenton, you are correct.
But where do you draw the line??? 1" less of insulation? Improper nailing patterns???? Pipe hangers too far apart??? Slippery slope............
If the client hires you for a new construction inspection, then your job is to represent the client and to call out all the defects you see. No matter how much it is going to cost the contractor.

Perhaps I will use that in my marketing in the future,

"I call out the defects I think are important, or the defects that won't cost the contractor too much to fix".

It is a lot easier as an Inspector if you call out the defects you see.
</IMG></IMG>

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Marcell, I was taught as an Inspector that I was there to Inspect, period. Which to me means checking the building to the contract documents (plans/codes/specs).

Now if I am the Engineer of record, then not only can I inspect, but I can interpet, or deviate as necessary with sign off. And depending on the situation field Engineer the design to fit the circumstances.

I would not sign off on missing anchors. Where is the upside for me?????????

I like being an Inspector.

Hi. Brian;

No offense here Brian.

Back in 1986 I was an Inspector for the Federal Government up in Houlton, Maine for a Border Station. The Architect was on his second Clerk of the Works and the Contractor from Massachusetts was screwing everything in site and was on the second Superintendent for the Project.

I was stationed there for 18 months and went through four more Job Superintendents.
Why, because the only thing anybody new was plans and spec. nothing else.
We built it as you designed it they would say. They would not care less about Code or whether or not it was right or wrong. The fact was at the time that the designers are paid to make sure everything is up to code and is not their problem. It would then all come back at a point where the Contractor was being told that they have to meet all local and State Codes.

If you are Building a home for someone as a small time Contractor, yes I would agree to that since they are not controlled by anyone.

If you are Commercial, then the story changes, you are now dealing with big designs, Architects, Engineers and expect that the money they have been paid will cover the Code requirements of the State they are practicing in.

Marcel
</IMG></IMG></IMG></IMG>

[Kenton H. Shepard, CMI]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

It is a lot easier as an Inspector if you call out the defects you see.
</IMG></IMG>

I guess to a certain extent it's a matter of time and money, Brian. I look at homes where I could spend 2 days writing things up. Stuff everywhere. Every system. So I feel like most of us are making decisions about where to draw the line anyway. On a pretty good house you can afford to go into detail and draw the line toward the conservative side. Then there are areas that depend on AHJ's. Lots of grey areas and opportunities for judgement calls.
I understand what you're saying about interpretation as opposed to inspection. It's a valid point.

I'd like to see every nut on there. Yeah, it's wrong if they're missing, no question. I don't pass on anything I think is really a concern. Sometimes the threads are stripped... and I've been on jobs where we took a file and got that nut on anyway (well, not me, we had a kid who was really good at it) but I think most bolts with badly stripped threads go without. If it's 2 out of 55... I'm I won't call it, unless of course it's not just an anchor bolt in a line of anchor bolts but instead is in a key position like a 3/4" hold-down bolt.