Nailing of deck boards to joists.

[William J. Decker]

WIth decks I am much more concerned with proper footing, proper ledger board attachment and secure railings and steps.

Most decks, around here, are hack jobs anyway.

[pabrioux]

I agree Will, and those areas are what I carefully looked at. In fact I didn't mention the deck board nailing to the client at all, but took the extra picture so that I could get some feedback from others here, as I wasn't sure.
Whether I hear you guys wouldn't bother mentioning it, or that it's a poor or typical installation, etc., it's all great feedback for me and I appreciate it .

Thanks!
Paul-Marc

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

I think some inspector like to write things up to make them feel that they have earned their pay...........as I have said earlier.........PT is a pain to work with.....I dont care if you
predrill, blunt the heads, use special screws......its going to happen.
I have installed over a hundred decks using different methods, materials, and fasteners........... writing stuff like that up is showing your being nit picky as well as GC's thinking you don't know what your talking about.

What are you going to write up......"Installer failed to properly install deck boards (which they didn't) which thereby will result in (fill in the blank); recommend that all deck boards be replaced and properly fastened to ensure that deck boards do not split".................please.

If my client said something to me about it then I would simply point that any time you screw or nail something that close to the butt joints (which you have to in regards to where the joist are) is likely to split over time if not during installation.

Many times an inspector can create problems that are not there.

regards

Jeff

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jhaynes

I think some inspector like to write things up to make them feel that they have earned their pay...........as I have said earlier.........PT is a pain to work with.....I dont care if you
predrill, blunt the heads, use special screws......its going to happen.
I have installed over a hundred decks using different methods, materials, and fasteners........... writing stuff like that up is showing your being nit picky as well as GC's thinking you don't know what your talking about.

What are you going to write up......"Installer failed to properly install deck boards (which they didn't) which thereby will result in (fill in the blank); recommend that all deck boards be replaced and properly fastened to ensure that deck boards do not split".................please.

If my client said something to me about it then I would simply point that any time you screw or nail something that close to the butt joints (which you have to in regards to where the joist are) is likely to split over time if not during installation.

Many times an inspector can create problems that are not there.

regards

Jeff

No offense intended, Jeff. But please look at it from the client's and the inspector's viewpoint.

I do a lot of work in a very high-rent area (Chicago's north shore area). People pay a lot for houses and for decks, and the builder's and contractors charge alot (they call it the "North Shore Premium").

So when the work is done in a shoddy manner, the client's have a right to be informed of the fact, and the inspector has a duty to report it.

I constantly see ledger boards that are "attached" through brick veneer (just plain wrong) and no footings (wrong again) and no flashing of the ledger boards (again, wrong). Certianly, I must call these things out, if for no other reason that I will get sued if something goes wrong and especially if someone gets hurt.

And I do get derided by contractors and builders. They explain "This is how everybody does it" or "Hey, it's code". I just tell them, and the client, that the work was not done to "best practices" and show them the documentation to back me up.

And there are methods to install PT deck planking without splitting it. I have also built some decks, inclduing one for myself. Sure, it takes more time and costs more (and I understand that many times the homeowner is not willing to pay for these extra costs) but I have always believed that anything worth doing is worth doing well.

Just my opinion.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

No offense taken Will, it just that the more a person becomes familiar with a product (and or components) the better they can fully evaluate and inform their client as what is normal and what isn't. Yes, shoddy work and code violations are one thing........ but understanding the pros and cons of certain materials is another.

Concrete will crack (given)
Yellow pine will split (given)
Drywall in new construction is likely to have a crack or nail pop here and there (moisture content of framing)
Solid wood floors (nailed down) will expand and contract and possibly creek (given)
Caulking never last 30 - 50 years as stated by manufacturer, it will separate (given)
Interior doors will bind slightly over a period of time (given)
And
Decking boards (and top caps) will split, warp and twist to some degree.
Again, much of it has to do with the moisture content in the material when installed.
I hand cull my decking material and pay attention to the moisture content but even then it can still happen depending on wx and humidity conditions when its installed.
I have installed decking board where upon the moisture content was high (owner supplied the material), I set the board tight as possible knowing that within 6 months there would be gaps in every board, and yes, predrilled and screwed......sure enough gaps were 1/4 inch and butt joints were split (usually at the outer bandjoist).

My point is that an inspector needs to differentiate between what is truly a cosmetic issue and what isn't. Let me say that best practices and industry standards are not necessarily the same. Most builders (not all) do things by code AND within industry standard (which I have a problem with at times..... especially with track builders) however I am looking at whether its an safety issue or something that will effect the habitability of the home......if its not then it stays out off the Summary Page.

And finally, when a homeowners purchases a 3000 sf home for $60 per sq. ft. what do they expect to get.......the Biltmore?

There is an old saying / principle among builders & remodeler's.....
SPEED, QUALITY, PRICE...........................Pick Two.

Your high end customers who are willing to pay more often pick the latter two,
most people want the first two but are willing to pay the latter for the time it takes to achieve the middle.

regards

Jeff