Ongoing Roof Leak

[David A. Andersen]

http://files.tribalonline.net/Roofing_PICs_pdf55

I would like opinions about these pictures.

I inspected this house on three occasions.

During the first inspection, which was conducted as a one-year builders warranty inspection, I found water intrusion into the house from inadequate roof, siding and gutter installation.

The builder refused to repair the house for almost a year after notification when the first homeowners were selling the property.

Because the repair was conducted so late, they gave the new buyers a one-year warranty on the repair they made.

It is now one year since the repair in the current homeowner contracted from a come back and take another look. Attached is what I found.

The repairs they made improved upon the situation however the situation is not gone. Also the workmanship of the repair is obviously inadequate.

The client's husband is deployed in Iraq and she has to handle this on her own. I think I'll be getting a little more involved in this than I normally do.
Due to the builders past performance, it is likely this will drag on.

I have a laundry list of discrepancies concerning these repairs, but I would like a fresh set of eyes. Kick out flashing was recommended but not employed during the first repair. Inappropriate caulking/flashing created the first mess. Additional caulking of the first repair improved the situation but will obviously not last and is currently not 100% waterproof.

[David P. Valley]

Loose like improper flashing installations to me.

Not only that, the siding installation itself looks horrible.

What's up with all the sealant?

I'd recommend a professional sider remove all siding at/around dormer area and repair all step and counter flashing.

[James F. McKee]

I feel for Your position there David, as I see nothing but a poor initial install followed by an even worse very temporary repair.....jim

[ckratzer]

It looks like the problem starts in the valley itself.As a contractor I would want to tear out and replace the whole valley , making sure to use valley flashing under the shingles and 30# felt.
The job looks so poor in general I would also want to replace the step flashing which means the J channel has to come off. I would also cut the siding a bit higher off the roof.A kick out flashing should be installed as well.
Silicone is an improper sealant for composite shingles...says so right on a Geocel tube or can and probably on other silicone brands.
A good roofer uses very little asphalt sealants to keep a roof from leaking.After all, isn't that what the shingles and flashing are supposed to do?

Cheremie

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by ckratzer

It looks like the problem starts in the valley itself.As a contractor I would want to tear out and replace the whole valley , making sure to use valley flashing under the shingles and 30# felt.
The job looks so poor in general I would also want to replace the step flashing which means the J channel has to come off. I would also cut the siding a bit higher off the roof.A kick out flashing should be installed as well.
Silicone is an improper sealant for composite shingles...says so right on a Geocel tube or can and probably on other silicone brands.
A good roofer uses very little asphalt sealants to keep a roof from leaking.After all, isn't that what the shingles and flashing are supposed to do?

Cheremie

I like Cheremie's method from a builder's perspective.

[Carl A. Brown]

Why no moisture barrier?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by ckratzer

A good roofer uses very little asphalt sealants to keep a roof from leaking. After all, isn't that what the shingles and flashing are supposed to do?

Cheremie

A good roofer uses no asphalt sealants to keep a roof from leaking.

If he has to use sealants on plumbing vents or chimney flashings, etc, what's there is done poorly (no two piece base and counter flashings at chimneys) or deteriorated (mortar joints in brick) to the point replacement is needed.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by dandersen

http://files.tribalonline.net/Roofing_PICs_pdf55

I would like opinions about these pictures.

It's got to be taken apart and redone properly with no sealants used. It's a tough area to do well. May have to use some "Ice and Water Shield" as valley flashings to be able to be moulded around the corner.

[Peter C. Russell]

Dave, one problem I saw was the J channel coming down the roof is not cut properly so the water that flows down it is actually going right behind the siding. When we do vinyl jobs we always make a small cut in the siding so the J channel comes back out and lets the water flow down the outside of the siding instead or behind it.

I too recommend the valley be stripped back and redone at the same time the siding should be removed and ice and water shield should be applied to not only the roof but up the side wall too, once this is completed there is no reason the siding can't sit on the shingles.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by prussell

Dave, one problem I saw was the J channel coming down the roof is not cut properly so the water that flows down it is actually going right behind the siding. When we do vinyl jobs we always make a small cut in the siding so the J channel comes back out and lets the water flow down the outside of the siding instead or behind it.

I too recommend the valley be stripped back and redone at the same time the siding should be removed and ice and water shield should be applied to not only the roof but up the side wall too, once this is completed there is no reason the siding can't sit on the shingles.

Peter:

There's a detail in a mid 90's edition of JLC that has a diagram for flashing the J behind the siding. I don't have it at my fingertips but you may be able to find it as it was in a main article on vinyl siding.

[David A. Andersen]

Thank you guys for all the replies!

You guys are covering all the bases. (Because everything is wrong!?)
There is nothing right about this application. It is obviously not working either.

I have more pic's if you need more.

Update on the case:
The contractors warranty was written to be 11 months from my inspection, not the new buyers possession (even the repair was about the same time). The warranty is now >30 days expired.

The warranty is from a roofing sub-contractor, not the general contractor who ordered the repair.

Still it was wrong, was repaired wrong, and is not working. Now we have MOLD. Oooooooh, bad word!

This house is in a Military Community and there are other options available to the client. For one JAG (lawyers) are free! There is something through the Provost Marshals Office called the "Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board" (like the BBB). They hear cases where the Military are taken advantaged of because of their circumstances, like in this case being absent to be deployed in Iraq. The builder/sub-contractors can be basically put Off Limits to Military Personnel. If they can't sell to military, why build here?

It took a year for the roofer to show up after the problem was found in my inspection. They will probably try to use the clock to get out of it.

I would like to use some of your replies as professional statements in this informal process. If anyone has a problem with this, please pvt msg me. It's now a Google search result so it's public anyway.

Thanks again to all.
If you come up with or have any good links etc, please post.

[David A. Andersen]

Some of just the roof shots.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by dandersen

Some of just the roof shots.

No links but a comment: The designer of that valley/house wall/corner intersection should be relieved of his duties.

Just noticed a similar detail on a new expensive house a couple of days ago......shook my head. People pay good money for crap. And we can get 12 inches of snowfall to potentially add to the rain problems you see.

[David A. Andersen]

yes, I agree wholeheartedly!

[Frank J. Carey]

Here is one possible fix as I have done this before. Let's face it that is a bad spot and a leak waiting to happen. The first thing to do is to take off the siding on that side. Then rip up the shingles . Nail two 2x4's along the sheathing against the wall where you ripped the siding off of. Bend a Z flashing so that it will conform to the 2x4 and still extend to the roof (under shingles when you replace) and up the wall behind the siding. Allow the 2x4's to extend pass the wall under the corner piece and this is your kickout. Replace the shingles and if motivated enough place 3 rows of Ice&water up if the pitch is under a 6. Another thing to do is nail the 2x4's down replace the shingles using step flashing and then counter with a cap over the 2x's and replace siding...