Opinion on this 3-tab valley

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Jae,

That is exactly why I say those who have actually worked in the construction business have an advantage in that they have seen various application methods and understand what works and what does not.

I have built homes in Ohio, Indiana, Va. and North Carolina......all using the same method...... and have yet to ever had one leak...... Go figure.

On the other hand when installing metal flashing one needs to remember that the metal does expand and contract hence the need for roofing cement on the edge (open valley).........guess what give away over time from the expanding and contraction........guess where the leaks come from.

Jeff

PS. I am actually from Cincinnati..... have built homes from Loveland to Mason, Delhi - Montgomery........nice place but I do not miss the cold.

[James A. Ogle]

Gregory- go to www.gaf.com there are videos to explain open, woven, and cut valley installations. Note woven valleys are recommended for 3 tab shingles not laminated.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Greg,

Inspectors have to be careful not to define or limit what an acceptable application is without a proper basis and understanding that with many products applications can be limited to a specific manufacturers product and or series.

Owens Corning Installation Instructions state that woven valleys are acceptable for architectural shingles, however certain GAF's architectural shingles are 1/3 thicker than many other shingles which is why they do not prefer the woven valley technique, yet depending on their other series their instructions show that woven is fine. In the previous link under section 10 it states woven or closed.


This thread is a prime example as to why inspectors have to be careful in what they state on their reports. Here we do not know the manufacturer (or series) yet we have some that are going to call it out and others such as myself that differ.

You call it out stating that this is not an acceptable method of installation, the roofer (or contractor) comes back and shows you the instructions show that woven is fine with that particular product then it make you look like you don't know what your talking about.....which now makes your client wonder what else you missed or overstated.

If you are concerned about an installation of a particular product then try to obtain as much information as possible about same before making a broad sweeping call. (this is also why I do not print reports at the site).
If you still are not sure then simply state that you are unsure about this method, recommend the client consult with a professional installer or better yet the manufacturer rep.

Let me also say about roofing application in general...... the majority of roofs are installed incorrectly in some form or another......be it fasteners are not properly located or seated, caulking or roofing cement is not properly applied, or the shingles themselves were laid when moisture was present resulting in blistering etc.

Each inspector has to determine to what length they will go before they get into what is construed as an technically exhaustive inspection. Much of that determination will be based upon your personal experience and knowledge of various products and systems.

regards.

PS. James, excellent site for GAF products.

[Frank Albert]

Originally Posted by jhaynes

Jae,

That is exactly why I say those who have actually worked in the construction business have an advantage in that they have seen various application methods and understand what works and what does not.

I have built homes in Ohio, Indiana, Va. and North Carolina......all using the same method...... and have yet to ever had one leak...... Go figure.

On the other hand when installing metal flashing one needs to remember that the metal does expand and contract hence the need for roofing cement on the edge (open valley).........guess what give away over time from the expanding and contraction........guess where the leaks come from.

Jeff

PS. I am actually from Cincinnati..... have built homes from Loveland to Mason, Delhi - Montgomery........nice place but I do not miss the cold.

OPen valleys do NOT require cement along the edge. That cement develops crack between itself and the metal, and the shingles, which in turn creates channel for water to enter the system. The water never finds it's way back out. Major leak damage occurs.
In the picture is what is REQUIRED on open valleys. The unexposed portion of the shingles must be cut paralell to the rafters to keep the water in the center.

I removed the cement on leakers and just cut the tops for repairs. I've also cut many tops off the shingles of leaking valleys. They quit leaking.
I've never had to repair an open valley done like the one I attached to this post.
I will fail a valley without the tops cut paralell to the rafters.

[Frank Albert]

This picture is of my own roof. Weaved 50 year Elks. THe bottoms of each course pass at of near the valley center.
I closer look will show that I Dutched-lapped the entire roof. Elk OK'd the installation.

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Frank,

Are those tri-laminate and what's your experience with hail storms on those.
Lately I have been doing quite a few of roof inspections where roofers are calling out hail damage that doesn't exist........I guess they are hungry.



Jeff

[Frank Albert]

These are standard toothed layer shingles. No triple layer. Not enough hail around here to have an opinion. But, from what I read elsewhere, lots of hail damage is exaggerated. No facts though.

[Frank Albert]

INteresting development today. I got a call for a leak. It was an open valley, with a bead of caulk along the edge.
There was a thin line where the caulk had broken it's seal with the shingles.
There was water running all under the roof. THe cure? Cut the caulk loose and clip the tops.
A question. Would my pictures have been more informative if, when I was on the job, with the camera, the battery hadn't been at home on the charger?

[Michael Larson]

Next time use the one on your cell phone

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Originally Posted by Frank Albert

INteresting development today. I got a call for a leak. It was an open valley, with a bead of caulk along the edge.
There was a thin line where the caulk had broken it's seal with the shingles.
There was water running all under the roof. THe cure? Cut the caulk loose and clip the tops.
A question. Would my pictures have been more informative if, when I was on the job, with the camera, the battery hadn't been at home on the charger?

Were not you and I just talking about that...........how that the edge often fails from contraction and expansion. lol

I carry about 8 extra rechargeable batteries with my including the charge itself........... my batteries usually die when I am on a roof or in a crawl space.

[Jae Williams]

[quote=jhaynes;508578]Jae,

That is exactly why I say those who have actually worked in the construction business have an advantage in that they have seen various application methods and understand what works and what does not.
You call construction...work??

I have built homes in Ohio, Indiana, Va. and North Carolina......all using the same method...... and have yet to ever had one leak...... Go figure.
Oh, so...you're the one who did that...

On the other hand when installing metal flashing one needs to remember that the metal does expand and contract hence the need for roofing cement on the edge (open valley).........guess what give away over time from the expanding and contraction........guess where the leaks come from.
Metal valleys (and flashings) also rusts and needs periodic monitoring. I prefer the woven valley method, if done right. It's getting more and more popular around here.

Jeff

PS. I am actually from Cincinnati..... have built homes from Loveland to Mason, Delhi - Montgomery........nice place but I do not miss the cold.[/quote]

Cold?? What cold?? 70 degrees year 'round, and you call that cold??

[Jae Williams]

...or is that Sandy Eggo??

[Jeffery L. Haynes]

Hey I remember those 105 degree summer days, putting up thermaply walls.........you felt like you were in a microwave oven.........then you had winters where it got 30 below and we still have to work our tails off. The boss use to ride around the construction sites making sure we didn't start any barrel fires. He said the solution to staying warm was working harder. He was tough but fair........most of the guys he hired were guys from just got out of prison.......talk about a rough bunch.......but they respected him.

Cincy is nice but Carolina is better......at least for me.

regards

[Jae Williams]

Now you've done gone and made me cry...