Stucco moisture issue article

[Matthew K. Klein]

I received the current article in an e-mail and thought people would find it interesting. BTW, if you do not know the name Joseph Lstiburek and are involved in moisture and mold investigations, then you should be.

Stucco Woes: The Perfect Storm





http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...-perfect-storm

[rarmacost]

I received the same issue, realy inlightning. All inspectors should read this one.

[Jeff Tatlock]

Thank you for sharing this article Matthew.

Jeff Tatlock
BEACHSIDE Home Inspection
Serving Satellite Beach, Indian Harbour Beach, Indialantic, Melbourne Beach, Melbourne, Cocoa Beach, Merritt Island, Cape Canaveral, Brevard County, FL
www.beachsideinspection.com

[john bubber]

Just happened upon thread,eyeballed link-site and then wanted to see if THEY had anything to say about basement waterproofing.
http://www.buildingscience.com/docum..._waterproofing

Are these peeps are saying exterior waterproofing is NOT necessary? LOL

They claim, 'if water management is used, waterproofing is not necessary.


IF thats what they`re claiming/think then imo they`re full of holes on this subject.

Here`s a newer house eh,was damproofed,the grade is sloped away,had a below grade waterdiverting pipe system.....why are we there? Did any of this work?
http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailsh...283_111847456/


Groundwater management my az.Couple recently bought house,seller poured NEW driveway,tarred/caulked along drive/house,painted-Drylok inside wall.
Was more concrete UNDER new driveway,also had a DRAIN and pipe....
water management? pfffft!!
http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailsh...283_111847456/

Same house,some pic`s of inside wall,16-20. We`re there/waterproofing because ALL the dumb water-management assumptions didn`t identify and repair the actual-problems.
http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailsh...283_111847456/

You can try and divert some water,try all ya like.There will still be x-amount of lateral soil pressure against the basement wall and may also be 'other' exterior weight/pressure that can cause cracks,bowed wall,subsequent leaks,some mold or efflorescence on wall such as underground root(s) against a wall,porch footing,concrete slabs etc.
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/
Playing with the grade,extending downspouts,mudjacking slabs etc does not identify/determine how-where water is allowed to enter and does not remove any possible causes of cracks/bowed wall/leaks and doesn`t repair whatever the real problem is.

Ok sorry,just get tired of the many myths on the subject. Got milk?

[Carl A. Brown]

And yet no mention of the HVAC and the house's being air tight and every time the HVAC kicks on it sucks the moisture in at every pinhole.

[Gary Oleski]

Thank you Matthew!

[Stacey Van Houtan]

I scribe to the bulding science site and read this peice a few days ago
Overall good info but the take on interior vapor barriers I question

[Matthew K. Klein]

Are these peeps are saying exterior waterproofing is NOT necessary? LOL

If you had looked closer at the article, it began by saying that it was virtually impossible to construct a waterproof basement seal. I personally agree particularly for our basements in S. Ohio. I have seen my share of basements that had the asphaltic coating, but which leaked because of excess water running down the foundation due to uncontrolled moisture.

The system shown in the document works. Rather than trying to put a waterproof coating on the outside, it uses a drainage plane along the foundation which doesn't allow water to reach the foundation wall. A great deal of research backs up this system. Unless there is a flood, there would be no water pressure against the foundation.

I might add, DR. Lstiburek has written and co-written several books and countless articles in refereed journals as well as trade publications on moisture control in buildings in a range of various climatic conditions. Do you have the same credentials? If you want to compare, here is a place to look up his bio: http://www.healthyheating.com/Biographies/Lstiburek.htm. I think if he were to compare his to yours, he would be doing the LOLing.

[john bubber]

With all due respect to Big Joe, he has not identified and then repaired thousands of leaky basements throughout 30 years that were previously only parged or maybe damproofed and certainly backfilled like shtt,same excavated soil,roots,blocks,bricks,wood etc.

Apparently he hasn`t seen the many incompetent weak-attempts of those who had leaky basements and tried adding soil,who raised and sloped the dumb grade away,who extended their downspout extensions 99 miles away,who applied Drylok on inside wall(s) or who mudjacked patio/drive slabs or caulked along the drive and house,had inside system installed etc etc and.....still leaked.Some had more mold and-or efflorescence of their basement wall,some saw existing cracks widen,some saw their basement wall bow in or,bow in more etc.

So your obviously correct, we don`t have the same credentials.Joe and many others who`ve written books etc do not have hands-on experience/knowledge as a few of us do have.And anyone who says/believes foundations walls should not be waterproofed is absolutely incompetent on this-subject,thats right. Am sure Joe has MUCH more knowledge on other shtt but not on this-subject,nope.Just because some write books/articles does not at all mean they understand as much or more than a few of us do,blchttt.I bet IF mister Joe/most others who do write books etc DID SEE what we`ve seen and repaired he`d change his tune and if he didn`t he`d still be wrong,yes sir.

You say you`ve seen your share of basements 'asphaltic coating' but leaked because of what you believed/assumed was due to excess water running down....Well, that coating,those walls were VERY LIKELY ONLY damproofed and they often were backfilled w/same excavated soil,not good.And many of those damproofed had no visqueen etc,no protection from that crap soil backfilled against it so that thin damproofing breaks down,dissolves and-or comes off on that backfilled soil.

How about those homes/basements wall that were built and ONLY damproofed and THEN a crack(s) occurred due to one or more of the following,equipment operator didn`t use care and cracked wall,or came too close to basement wall and a crack occcurred or that shtty soil that was backfilled then began settling along-against wall and caused a crack....then sometime down the road,months/yrs a HI whoever comes by and sees the thin damproof-coating,they THINK the walls were 'waterproofed' when they were only damproofed and the crack(s) could have been CAUSED as i just said and NOW 'some HI`s etc incorrectly assumes what they think was 'waterproofing' did not work.

Other shtt that can happen is a neighbor or the city or a nearby business has some work done and contractor used heavy equipment,creates vibrations etc and then THAT causes a crack and subsequent leak/seepage in basement and then someone is called,like an HI or inside system idiot and they see a black substance on wall and think and tell homeowner the walls were already waterproofed and it didn`t last/work when the walls were only damproofed and the crack was caused by other shtt.Damproofing isn`t going to bridge any existing crack nor will it obviously keep water out of a crack that occurs in future

This guy 'gets' some of this subject,he writes articles etc eh? And he is correct here....(he ISN`T correct on some other shtt on this subject)
http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-...ndations.shtml
....Tim, my builder did waterproof my foundation
'Well, believe it or not in MANY cases that is NOT true'.
....they were merely damproofed,not waterproofed.

Just because someone sees some 'black substance' on wall doesn`t mean it was waterproofed,was very likely damproofed.

Looks like paragraph 5, 'To PERMANENTLY stop water and water vapor from entering your foundations wall, you NEED to waterproof them'

So EITHER Joe/you etc are right on THIS or, Tim,Yoder,Capizzo,J McEwen and my ugly is.
Quick TIP, it ain`t Joe.

Waterproof them AND backfill with most-all gravel as Yoder-here knows
6th paragraph http://dwightyoderbuilders.com/concrete.cfm
D Yoder is in OHIO where you are.....no complaints.

When someone recomends raising and sloping the GRADE or add longer downspout extensions or mudjacking slabs or painting walls w/Drylok to homeowners who have leaky basements without first identifying/determining how-where the water is getting in then imo they are incompetent,negligent...sure they are!

How can anyone PRESUME what the solution is WITHOUT diagnosing/identifying the actual dang problem???

Raising and sloping the GRADE,adding soil,longer downspouts etc etc doesn`t fix-repair open-leaky rod holes......raising and sloping the grade etc doesn`t fix/waterproof an existing crack or cracked-deteriorated parging,those are existing defects....leave them OPEN? Tell a seller/buyer to just raise,slope the grade etc WITHOUT finding the actual problem(s)?

When the homeowners problem/water is due to a possible blockage in the lateral line or, water is entering through open mortar joints or gaps/crevices under-around basements windows,doors then THAT`s what needs to be fixed/repaired.....raising the grade etc doesn`t fix these existing problems and so on...

Building Science
http://www.bestofbuildingscience.com/ click videos list top right
All the way down to J Tooley
11. Foundations, segment 1
....sure,yes,try and divert some surface water/drainage as he-most know
but he adds.....then damproof,waterproof....unlike Big Joe eh.

This presumption that many have that somehow-magically most leaky basements can be 'solved' by raising and sloping the grade etc is just that, an incompetent presumption....to accept WITHOUT verification of proof.Capizzo,McEwen,my az, others are PROOF that exterior walls should have been waterproofed and backfilled correctly,that cracks,cracked parging etc occurs and then subsequent leaks,mold etc.....and that MOST homeowners etc have TRIED these MYTHS that trying to divert surface water does NOT keep all UNDERGROUND/SUBSURFACE water AWAY from the entire DEPTH of foundation walls,does NOT remove all lateral soil pressure,other weights-pressures,underground roots,footings,slabs etc.

Did you click,look at those pictures?
New driveway,more concrete under that and right up against the basement wall with a drain and pipe and they caulked along new drive/house and Drylok inside wall and.....still leaked,more mold and efflorescence.....sheesh!
Hmm,wonder what big Joe/others would then say after shelling out thousands attemtping to play with the grade/keep some SURFACE water away and homeowners still leak.

Some are going to continue to tell us that what we`ve repeatedly seen and then had to fix over DECADES was all wrong,just a mirage? That THEY are right...really?

Don`t know if this is you guys or someone else
http://www.criteriumhomeinspection.com/structural.pdf
Won`t get into all of it.
It`s part-right where they say the following,

Page 11....Basement Waterproofing
'a water problem in an existing basement can ONLY effectively be dealt with by
RE-WATERPROOFING the outside of the foundation wall....(this is correct,however as always one needs to make sure/correctly identify THE problem(s) such as, IF there IS a crack,cracked exterior parging etc BEFORE doing ANYTHING)
.....they then ADD, 'and-or upgrading the exterior foundation drainage system....

Upgrading drainage system will NOT fix/repair any possible (And likely) cracks,rod holes,cracked parging etc.Again, need to correctly define/identify THE problem,then FIX it.
Regrading etc will not repair existing cracks etc but if some wanna recommend this and spend money on this instead of repairing the actual problem and being done with it,fine.yer azz not mine.
Can HEAR it,see it now......Seller says to potential BUYER of house,ok well we spent $$$ on the recommendation from SE/whoever and regraded.Buyer calls my azz over,do a water test and-or dig down a liltle and SHOW them 1 or more existing cracks EXIST and the regrading DUH obviously didn`t repair/waterproof these cracks,you will VERY LIKELY leak at some point in future,especially on longer,heavier rains or spring thaws and more mold,efflorescence may occur on wall,insects/termites could enter and who knows,the cracks could get wider (more likely if there is clay against exterior wall or underground roots,porch footing etc)....based on my g dang 30 yrs of seeing this exact same shtt.

Then they say, there are alternatives.....and bring up interior systems...eh.
They correctly state, 'these systems do not correct the problem',thats right.
Then they add,these systems CONTROL the water AFTER it has entered the basement....

Say again, when the water is entering THROUGH shtt such as exterior cracks,cracked parging etc on the exterior of block,brick walls as has been repeatedly shown in pictures and happens to many homes then you need to waterproof the exterior problem and NOT install a goofball interior water control system that isn`t going help possible deterioration of blocks,joints yer allowing the water to continue to pass through and into AND remove,reduce,relieve possible lateral soil pressure and-or underground root(s),porch footing,slabs that cause many cracks,bowed walls,leaks in the first place!

If a g dang tree fell on yer g dang house would you leave it there and patch the inside/attic/ceiling??? maybe install some goofball interior waterdiverting shtt too?
Are you kidding? Not worried about further weight/damage/roof deteriorating/mold? Huh?

They touch upon products that CLAIM to seal basement walls on the inside,LOTS of luck,all ya gotta do is eyeball the many pic`s i`ve posted and use common sense,sheesh. lol

They`re right about those who tell people they can inject SHTT into the soil,its nonsense.
Quit playing around,find the dang problem(s) and fix it.

In LAST 1 or 2 para`s on page 12, nope. Sheesh, see/read and try and understand Yoder link,read Fairfax County link,Basement Wall damage,cause and resolution!

Read U S Army Corps of Engs,Amherst NY....what happened,what reduces lateral soil pressure etc....its NOT by doing dogshtt interior systems,wrong!!!
http://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/missio...ex.html#Photos

[Carl A. Brown]

Originally Posted by Stacey Van Houtan

I scribe to the bulding science site and read this peice a few days ago
Overall good info but the take on interior vapor barriers I question

No one wants a 1/2 million terrarium.

Why Stacey what ever do you mean?


Around here it will all be blamed on the Stucco.

Bubber that passion is killing me!

[john bubber]

Carl!!!! lolol

G dammmmmmmit 'some' will NEVER GET IT,some don`t want to get it.
Some are embarr-'azzed' and won`t admit what they thought they knew is most or all WRONG on this subject,Jesus Kristmas!
Tell ya, there are many smarter OVERALL mfrs than the Bubberman BUT,
NOT on this one subject.

Hey, the FEW of us who get most-all of this-subject,who`ve performed the necessary work with a TON of freakin honesty over DECADES haven`t written THE book yet.Maybe we will and maybe we won`t.McEwen,Capizzo and a few others have been,still are completely FED UP with SOME who profess they have most or all of 'the-solutions' to leaky basements when they`ve never even done a freakin job to begin with AND had to back up/guarantee their work.Blchhhtttt.

Amazing how some sit there and have the ballz to tell my g dammmm azzz,Capizzo,McEwen that WE are wrong, how is it at all possible THEY have SEEN and KNOW more than us on this subject.Its just like Haege,Sullivan in Cincy who has always recommended Everdry,pffft.
Haege also used to recommended Everdry,he woke up a TAD (thats AFTER MANY homeowners got screwed mind you,thanks Haege) and now doesn`t but continues to recommend inside system knotheads.

So, those who believe-recommend raising,sloping the GRADE etc to homeowners who have leaky basements and who don`t bother to first identify/diagnose WHY-WHERE water is entering,like this and many other pics posted......
They would tell homeowner to RAISE and SLOPE the GRADE to this homeowner?
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...283_111847456/
Hey, this is NOT the only EXTERIOR crack.....play-click the slideshow,sheesh!
Duh, why are we there,why are these pictures posted???? Because NOBODY wanted to,bothered to first IDENTIFY the problems,the cause and then FIX them!!!!! fc man

LOOK at the pic`s, are SOME telling us that raising and sloping the GRADE or 99 mile downspout extensions is all that needed to be done???? Are you people crazy? LOLOL!!!
Its OK to LEAVE the cracks OPEN huh? Its that what YOUR recommending to many homeowners? Shtt like this can`t be sealed from the inside....duh! And quite a few g dang basement walls are NOT 'capped',do NOT have 1/2 solid on top...blchhtttt,no they don`t.

Just raise the grade here too right? Extend downspout extensions to the Pacific ocean eh? Leave the exterior cracks open huh? Leave those above-grade joints open eh? Yeah sure,whatever you say
http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailsh...283_111847456/