What to tell this homeowner

[Carl A. Brown]

Originally Posted by pcarter

Carl,
A couple of questions on this.
What type of mesh are they using on the OSB to apply the stucco to? Some are useing 1.75 most are useing 2.5 self furring galv. paperback lath!
Are they sealing the bottom edges of the OSB and if so how? No not to me knowledge.
Since wood products expand and contract during the seasons, how do they apply the stucco to counteract against expansion and contraction with two very different products? wood and cement Most put in expansion joints at plate lines over anr under all windows and doors!
Last question, since this does not appear to be a Traditional Stucco application, is this type of application considered a hybrid? That house was just plain old feild stucco mix! Alot of them here in the kc metro have gone to western one coat and sto one coat!And if I am not mistaken both of those systems call for a finish coat of acrylic or elastomeric paint! Most of the guys around here are textureing the base coat the same day and calling it good!

I have noticed in my area, that the contractors here are starting to use this type of stucco application on new construction, so I am very curious on the service life and known problems associated with this.

Thanks for your help.

Hope this helps you!

[jkormos]

Get a warranty

[Joe Farsetta]

I recently spoke to the sales director for the largest exterior stucco installer in the northeast. I asked him about this very problem. It's a pretty common one. The stucco set up too quickly, and cracking occurrs. Nothing to do but remove it and re-apply.

There are retarders which can be added to the stucco to help prevent this sort of stuff. Also, it is typically required to re-wet the stucco after application, to help prevent this. It's almost never done, as there is no time.

How should one write it up? Describe what you see. There is only one thing to be concerned with: is the stucco defective? The answer is yes.

My advice is to never get into too much detail, especially when you cannot see the substrate or attachment materials used, were not there during application, cannot verify the conditions present at the time of install, and dont know anything about the mix used (content, methodology, etc).

Bottom line...Its defective. It is cracked. It is unacceptable, and if left in its current condition, may lead to other problems. Recommend further evaluation by a qualified stucco contractor.

[Jay Moge]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

I recently spoke to the sales director for the largest exterior stucco installer in the northeast. I asked him about this very problem. It's a pretty common one. The stucco set up too quickly, and cracking occurrs. Nothing to do but remove it and re-apply.

There are retarders which can be added to the stucco to help prevent this sort of stuff. Also, it is typically required to re-wet the stucco after application, to help prevent this. It's almost never done, as there is no time.

How should one write it up? Describe what you see. There is only one thing to be concerned with: is the stucco defective? The answer is yes.

My advice is to never get into too much detail, especially when you cannot see the substrate or attachment materials used, were not there during application, cannot verify the conditions present at the time of install, and dont know anything about the mix used (content, methodology, etc).

Bottom line...Its defective. It is cracked. It is unacceptable, and if left in its current condition, may lead to other problems. Recommend further evaluation by a qualified stucco contractor.

i think the retarders were the ones who applied the stucco the first time.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

This is the general practice that I follow with regard to reporting of Hard Coat Masonry Stucco.

http://www.kchba.net/PDF/StuccoBestPracticesOverall.pdf

[Carl A. Brown]

Amen Jay!

Joseph most all stucco does crack but if you put the base coat on and let it sit for a couple weeks and cure out, then put the finish on the finish gets pressed into the cracks and most never show back up.

Then you have these painters that show up the day after the stucco is applied and paint the house and the stucco never cures out!

The stucco trade is like the HI trade there are some who give the rest a bad name! They are in all walks of life.

For me its all black and white, right is right and wrong is wrong!

[Joe Farsetta]

The question was how to report it.

Defective.

[Carl A. Brown]

Yes Joe you are right!

[Carl A. Brown]

Originally Posted by jhagarty

This is the general practice that I follow with regard to reporting of Hard Coat Masonry Stucco.

http://www.kchba.net/PDF/StuccoBestPracticesOverall.pdf

To bad they are not following these guide lines!
And the problems start with the ruffin crews!

[mrowan]

Carl

We know this is a major issue but we still need to evaluate and comment accurately on the defects. The last thing a realtor wants today is a comment like “ the stucco is incorrect, further evaluation by a stucco contractor” If you describe the conditions correctly everyone will know the severity of the situation and take the necessary precautions. You will also keep yourself out of liabilities way! Get to know all the relevant codes, construction practices, ASTM’s etc.

This is hard cost stucco with an electrometric paint finish from what I can see. There are many problems some may be hydration problems because of application methods while others are just application errors. Flashings are missing, expansion joints are incorrect, the chimney coping is too small, stucco clearances incorrect, lath application, etc. etc.

When looking at these homes, anticipate more shrinkage cracking on the east want south sides normally. Such a defect is synonymous to a one coat application. Try to differentiate between shrinkage cracks and moisture swelling cracks.

Paying close attention during the inside inspection at windows and other areas vulnerable to moisture intrusion. These findings will help you build your comments for the report. Recent painting and repairs will add to the uncertainty. Swollen baseboards, termite damage, rusting carpet tacks, elevated moisture readings etc

This has been an issue for years in many locations. Many builders have already corrected such practices over the last 5 years.

In all, these are great pictures to market new construction inspections service!!

[Carl A. Brown]

Originally Posted by mrowan

Carl

We know this is a major issue but we still need to evaluate and comment accurately on the defects. The last thing a realtor wants today is a comment like “ the stucco is incorrect, further evaluation by a stucco contractor” If you describe the conditions correctly everyone will know the severity of the situation and take the necessary precautions. You will also keep yourself out of liabilities way! Get to know all the relevant codes, construction practices, ASTM’s etc.

This is hard cost stucco with an electrometric paint finish from what I can see. There are many problems some may be hydration problems because of application methods while others are just application errors. Flashings are missing, expansion joints are incorrect, the chimney coping is too small, stucco clearances incorrect, lath application, etc. etc.

When looking at these homes, anticipate more shrinkage cracking on the east want south sides normally. Such a defect is synonymous to a one coat application. Try to differentiate between shrinkage cracks and moisture swelling cracks.

Paying close attention during the inside inspection at windows and other areas vulnerable to moisture intrusion. These findings will help you build your comments for the report. Recent painting and repairs will add to the uncertainty. Swollen baseboards, termite damage, rusting carpet tacks, elevated moisture readings etc

This has been an issue for years in many locations. Many builders have already corrected such practices over the last 5 years.

In all, these are great pictures to market new construction inspections service!!

I was a stucco contractor for the last 21 years. I quit now I am unemployed !And after 27 years in the trade I am just tired of seeing this kind of trash!
Truth be known that house probably has moisture related problem thru to the paint on the inside!
Most of the codes officers in ovpk will not return my calls!
And the HBA does not like my website!
http://www.badstucco.com And all are welcome to visit and post there!
But yet they are trying to get more laws passed to make it tougher on the private HI !

Every house built needs to be inspected by a HI ! IMO
The builders and the codes people have dropped the ball!

[Joe Farsetta]

The bottom line to the client is that the application and resultant exterior finish is defective. Why is it defective? There could be many reasone. We should describe the defect, and inform the client as to what may be the result of the condition its in.

The average client could care less WHY it happened, as opposed to WHAT THE DEFECT MEANS in terms of repair and possible hidden damage.

We can say that there are any number of possible causes, but the client is really interested in what the solution may entail.

"Joe, what do you think of this? What do you think might have caused it to do that? Dont you think they should take it all down and do it over? Will this be expensive? Could there be hidden damage? Do you think it was just a bad application, or did the house shake and cause the cracks? Could the foundation giving way have caused this? This really makes me nervous. What do you think we should do next? My wife and I really love this house and this neighborhood..."

These are the questions you'll likely face. Clients want it simple and straight to the point. "The finish is defective. It is cracked. It probably cannot be repaired correctly, and will likely need to be re-done.All it takes is some money, and it can be fixed. I dont know how much it will cost. You'll need to get some estimates."

Guys... we are generalists.