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  #16  
Old 10/5/09, 9:07 PM
Richard A. Hetzel Richard A. Hetzel is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

According to Res. SOP
2.9. Attic, Ventilation & Insulation
I. The inspector shall inspect
B. the ventilation of the attic spaces
C. mechanical ventilation systems;

II. However, the inspector is not required to:

F. activate thermostatically operated fans.

With that simple change, I believe the SOP is made more clear and precise. Of course, I don't know how it applies to Items A through G...and I'm only an old architect trying to help.
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  #17  
Old 10/6/09, 2:02 AM
John Cahill John Cahill is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
How can it be "confusing" when it specifically states that the inspector is not required to activate thermostatically operated fans?
I agree with James. The SoP are written in two parts. The requirement is modified by the limitation. I think it would easily hold up in a debate because writting SoP like this is an industry standard be it NAHI, ASHI, et al.

The purpose of splitting the limitations into their own section is because one limitation may apply to many requirements.
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  #18  
Old 10/6/09, 11:44 AM
Ben J. Gromicko's Avatar
Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

According to Res. SOP
2.9. Attic, Ventilation & Insulation
I. The inspector shall inspect
B. the ventilation of the attic spaces
C. mechanical ventilation systems;

II. The inspector is not required to:

F. activate thermostatically operated fans.
So, if II.F. is a limitation to the inspection requirements. Then the SOP requires ACTIVATING the mechanical ventilation systems. Yes?
The use of "activate" in the limitation implies that the requirement of "inspecting" includes "activating."

II.F. limits activating a certain type of fan; it is not limiting the action of the inspector.

Agreed?




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Last edited by bgromicko; 10/6/09 at 11:49 AM..
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  #19  
Old 10/6/09, 12:01 PM
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Michael Larson Michael Larson is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgromicko View Post
Agreed?
Sorry but no



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  #20  
Old 10/6/09, 12:06 PM
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Bruce M. Graham, III Bruce M. Graham, III is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Confusing, so the average Joe somo consumer can go back to the dealership and claim they were confused and did not know they were supposed to change the oil or were confused on which hole to pour it in, and now want to know when their new engine will be installed?

I think this one may be getting over thought. JMHO



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  #21  
Old 10/6/09, 12:27 PM
James H. Bushart's Avatar
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgromicko View Post
According to Res. SOP
2.9. Attic, Ventilation & Insulation
I. The inspector shall inspect
B. the ventilation of the attic spaces
C. mechanical ventilation systems;

II. The inspector is not required to:

F. activate thermostatically operated fans.
So, if II.F. is a limitation to the inspection requirements. Then the SOP requires ACTIVATING the mechanical ventilation systems. Yes?
The use of "activate" in the limitation implies that the requirement of "inspecting" includes "activating."

II.F. limits activating a certain type of fan; it is not limiting the action of the inspector.

Agreed?
No. The SOP does not require activation, but inspection.

Likewise, on a 30 degree day...I can inspect the cooling system but will not activate it, either.

Nice stretch....but....without the language that you have invented and inserted to make your point...the language that exists is quite clear.
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  #22  
Old 10/6/09, 12:40 PM
Ben J. Gromicko's Avatar
Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

According to Res. SOP
2.9. Attic, Ventilation & Insulation I. The inspector shall inspect
B. the ventilation of the attic spaces
C. mechanical ventilation systems;

II. The inspector is not required to:
F. activate thermostatically operated fans.

Inspecting includes using normal operating controls. Inspectors are required by SOP to activate mechanical ventilation systems, not thermostatically operated fans.




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President of NACHI.TV - Online Training Videos
President of Mountain Warranty Corporation
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IMPROVE YOUR REPORT

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  #23  
Old 10/6/09, 12:47 PM
Ben J. Gromicko's Avatar
Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgraham View Post
Confusing, so the average Joe somo consumer can go back to the dealership and claim they were confused and did not know they were supposed to change the oil or were confused on which hole to pour it in, and now want to know when their new engine will be installed?

I think this one may be getting over thought. JMHO
I disagree.
Ever hear of the case of the home inspector, who put ICC credentials in his marketing, was assumed by a client to be inspecting code violations? The client was confused as to what the inspector was required and not required to do. Judge ruled in favor of client. “Statements contained in an advertisement or on a website may form the basis for subsequent claims of misrepresentation by customers who did not understand the inspector’s role.”

The SOP is supposed to make things clear. If the client doesn't understand what we're doing, the ruling favors the consumer.





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  #24  
Old 10/6/09, 1:05 PM
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James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgromicko View Post
I disagree.
Ever hear of the case of the home inspector, who put ICC credentials in his marketing, was assumed by a client to be inspecting code violations? The client was confused as to what the inspector was required and not required to do. Judge ruled in favor of client. “Statements contained in an advertisement or on a website may form the basis for subsequent claims of misrepresentation by customers who did not understand the inspector’s role.”

The SOP is supposed to make things clear. If the client doesn't understand what we're doing, the ruling favors the consumer.


What does advertising have to do with the SOP?

Sure, you can mislead with advertising...such as "I meet or exceed the NACHI SOP". That is confusing and misleading and can get you in trouble. We all know that.

But the SOP, itself, is not advertising.

It specifically states that I will not activate the attic fan. Period. Because you suspect otherwise from some stretched and creative misinterpretation of the word "inspect" does not mean that I am obligated to do what I specifically stated I would not do.

You are mixing apples and oranges in an attempt to make a point, Ben.
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  #25  
Old 10/6/09, 1:21 PM
Ben J. Gromicko's Avatar
Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
It specifically states that I will not activate the attic fan. Period.
Nope.
Read...
According to Res. SOP
2.9. Attic, Ventilation & Insulation
I. The inspector shall inspect
B. the ventilation of the attic spaces
C. mechanical ventilation systems;

II. The inspector is not required to:
F. activate thermostatically operated fans.

You shall inspect the mechanical ventilation system (twist the SOP and call it an attic fan if you wish).




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President of NACHI.TV - Online Training Videos
President of Mountain Warranty Corporation
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  #26  
Old 10/6/09, 1:32 PM
James H. Bushart's Avatar
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Okay. I am not required to activate "thermostatically operated fans". I stand corrected. The SOP is clear.
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  #27  
Old 10/6/09, 1:43 PM
Ben J. Gromicko's Avatar
Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

According to Res. SOP
2.9. Attic, Ventilation & Insulation
I. The inspector shall inspect
B. the ventilation of the attic spaces
C. mechanical ventilation systems;

II. The inspector is not required to:
F. activate thermostatically operated fans.

What if the "fan" is on a humidity control?
SOP apparently requires inspectors to "activate" mechanical ventilation fans that have HUMIDISTATs.

attic-ventilation-standard-practice-requirement-attic-fan-controls.jpg




BEN GROMICKO
Director of InterNACHI Online Education
President of NACHI.TV - Online Training Videos
President of Mountain Warranty Corporation
ben@nachi.tv
(303)862-2611 ben@mountainwarranty.com

IMPROVE YOUR REPORT

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  #28  
Old 10/6/09, 2:08 PM
James H. Bushart's Avatar
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgromicko View Post
According to Res. SOP
2.9. Attic, Ventilation & Insulation
I. The inspector shall inspect
B. the ventilation of the attic spaces
C. mechanical ventilation systems;

II. The inspector is not required to:
F. activate thermostatically operated fans.

What if the "fan" is on a humidity control?
SOP apparently requires inspectors to "activate" mechanical ventilation fans that have HUMIDISTATs.

Attachment 32426

Your argument relies upon adding the words "apparently", "implies", and "might".

Mine depends on nothing more than an understanding of the words in the SOP as they are written.

I think you need to look for another argument.
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  #29  
Old 10/6/09, 3:00 PM
Ben J. Gromicko's Avatar
Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
Your argument relies upon adding the words "apparently", "implies", and "might".

Mine depends on nothing more than an understanding of the words in the SOP as they are written.

I think you need to look for another argument.
Funny how you think a discussion is always an argument.

Does the SOP require inspectors to activate mechanical ventilation fans that have HUMIDISTATs?




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Director of InterNACHI Online Education
President of NACHI.TV - Online Training Videos
President of Mountain Warranty Corporation
ben@nachi.tv
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IMPROVE YOUR REPORT

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  #30  
Old 10/6/09, 3:18 PM
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Rick Maday Rick Maday is offline
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Default Re: Attic Ventilation SOP Requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
Sorry but no
Ditto. you're reaching for something that isn't there.



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