Crack in a fire box...pic included

[David Nasser]

What is the write up for a crack like this ?
Is it serious ? David

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

There are one or more cracks in the manufactured fireplace firebrick. Replacement or an evaluation by a fireplace specialist is recommended.

[David Nasser]

thanks for the reply

[mnahrgang]

1.Our home inspectors do not inspect the internal components of a fireplace and/or their chimney, because it is impossible for a home inspection to determine with any degree of certainty whether the flue is free of defects. In accordance with recommendations made by the National Fire Prevention Association to have all chimneys inspected before buying a home, you should consider contacting our office for a Certified Chimney Specialist to conduct a Level II inspection of the chimney flue prior to close of escrow.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Assuming that really is a manufactured fireplace with 'artificial brick' then:

A ceramic fiber brick liner or refractory brick panels are missing or damaged in the firebox. While not necessary for safe operation of the fireplace they are recommended to improve heat distribution and to protect and prolong the life of the metal firebox. Repair or replace as needed.

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

1.Our home inspectors do not inspect the internal components of a fireplace and/or their chimney, because it is impossible for a home inspection to determine with any degree of certainty whether the flue is free of defects. In accordance with recommendations made by the National Fire Prevention Association to have all chimneys inspected before buying a home, you should consider contacting our office for a Certified Chimney Specialist to conduct a Level II inspection of the chimney flue prior to close of escrow.

Mark this statement in my opinion could mislead one to believe you didn't inspect the fireplace at all. Are you saying you don't look at the visible area inside the fireplace?

[mnahrgang]

I do not. This is where the SOP and I differ. I promote a Level II inspection and offer it as an ancillary service. To do even to what the SOP states, could lead the client to believe that the fireplace and chimney have been inspected thoroughly and are safe to use. I always explain that on the phone before booking, and I always tell them to get a level II before using it.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

I do not. This is where the SOP and I differ. I promote a Level II inspection and offer it as an ancillary service. To do even to what the SOP states, could lead the client to believe that the fireplace and chimney have been inspected thoroughly and are safe to use. I always explain that on the phone before booking, and I always tell them to get a level II before using it.

With all due respect Mark, that's a little shady in my view. What if a HI chose not to inspect the HVAC system at all and insisted that the client hire the HI's sister HVAC company for that service?

This organization's Code of Ethics states: "The InterNACHI member shall abide by the Code of Ethics and substantially follow the InterNACHI Standards of Practice." I don't think there is an allowance for "differing" with it.

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

With all due respect Mark, that's a little shady in my view. What if a HI chose not to inspect the HVAC system at all and insisted that the client hire the HI's sister HVAC company for that service?

This organization's Code of Ethics states: "The InterNACHI member shall abide by the Code of Ethics and substantially follow the InterNACHI Standards of Practice." I don't think there is an allowance for "differing" with it.

That's fine, I respect your opinion. And if that is a violation of the COE and the ethics committee choses to remove me from membership, then so be it.

My opinion is that what the SOP states should be done, is completely inadequate, and puts my clients at risk. I find it morally unconscionable to allow anyone to think that their fireplace is safe without a Level II. Since, I am not qualified to do a Level II myself that leaves one option.

As to the COE, I do "substantially" follow them. I just don't inspect fireplaces or their chimneys, and unless you have been trained to do a Level II, I suggest you don't either.

[Troy Farmer]

Agree

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

That's fine, I respect your opinion. And if that is a violation of the COE and the ethics committee choses to remove me from membership, then so be it.

My opinion is that what the SOP states should be done, is completely inadequate, and puts my clients at risk. I find it morally unconscionable to allow anyone to think that their fireplace is safe without a Level II. Since, I am not qualified to do a Level II myself that leaves one option.

As to the COE, I do "substantially" follow them. I just don't inspect fireplaces or their chimneys, and unless you have been trained to do a Level II, I suggest you don't either.

[Doug Edwards]

I also recommend a Level II inspection on fireplaces and chimneys but that does not or should not preclude the HI from doing a Level I inspection. That would not only validate the recommendation for the Level II (means the HI actually looked at the fireplace) instead of just pushing the basic responsibility onto another professional but let the customer know the inspector did follow the basic SOP requirement.

The NFPA gives the procedures for a Level I as:

Generally limited to readily accessible (sound familiar) areas of the chimney structure, with additional requirements to insure the flue is clear. Readily accessible areas are those areas that can be reached for inspection or maintenance without the use of tools or ladders. A Level I inspection will include checking the basic appliance installation and connection, checking readily accessible portions of the chimney structure and flue, and determining that the flue is not obstructed.

A Level I Inspection is the recommended level of inspection:

During annual chimney inspections

During routine service of the venting system, including chimney sweeping

Upon direct replacement of the connected appliance with one of similar type

At any other time an inspection is warranted, and conditions of use of the venting system are not changing (like during a home inspection)

It does not take but at few minutes to explain to the customer the scope of the Level I and II, but also allows the inspector to stress the importance of them following through on getting the Level II. I tell mine I am not qualified to perform the Level II but they should insist on having the chimney cleaned (which is part of the Level II) and inspected by a certified CSIA contractor.

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by dedwards

I also recommend a Level II inspection on fireplaces and chimneys but that does not or should not preclude the HI from doing a Level I inspection. That would not only validate the recommendation for the Level II (means the HI actually looked at the fireplace) instead of just pushing the basic responsibility onto another professional but let the customer know the inspector did follow the basic SOP requirement.

The NFPA gives the procedures for a Level I as:

Generally limited to readily accessible (sound familiar) areas of the chimney structure, with additional requirements to insure the flue is clear. Readily accessible areas are those areas that can be reached for inspection or maintenance without the use of tools or ladders. A Level I inspection will include checking the basic appliance installation and connection, checking readily accessible portions of the chimney structure and flue, and determining that the flue is not obstructed.

A Level I Inspection is the recommended level of inspection:

During annual chimney inspections

During routine service of the venting system, including chimney sweeping

Upon direct replacement of the connected appliance with one of similar type

At any other time an inspection is warranted, and conditions of use of the venting system are not changing (like during a home inspection)

It does not take but at few minutes to explain to the customer the scope of the Level I and II, but also allows the inspector to stress the importance of them following through on getting the Level II. I tell mine I am not qualified to perform the Level II but they should insist on having the chimney cleaned (which is part of the Level II) and inspected by a certified CSIA contractor.

Agreed 100%.

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Agreed 100%.

We'll have to disagree. A level I gives that false an impression .... A client could still light up (thinking "we got it inspected"), and have a major problem in the flue.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

With all due respect Mark, that's a little shady in my view. What if a HI chose not to inspect the HVAC system at all and insisted that the client hire the HI's sister HVAC company for that service?

This organization's Code of Ethics states: "The InterNACHI member shall abide by the Code of Ethics and substantially follow the InterNACHI Standards of Practice." I don't think there is an allowance for "differing" with it.

I don't see how it's differing since there is language for excluding systems..

1.1. A Home Inspection is a non-invasive, visual examination of a residential dwelling, performed for a fee, which is designed to identify observed material defects within specific components of said dwelling. Components may include any combination of mechanical, structural, electrical, plumbing, or other essential systems or portions of the home, as identified and agreed to by the Client and Inspector, prior to the inspection process.

If someone called up for simply a structural inspection, you would NOT have to inspect the roof, HVAC, Plumbing, etc.

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

We'll have to disagree. A level I gives that false an impression .... A client could still light up (thinking "we got it inspected"), and have a major problem in the flue.

That's their problem. I told them in my report they should get a level 2 and the reasons behind it along with doing my level 1 inspection. If they still want to light up the fireplace without taking my advice atleast I know after reading about them in the local paper I did my job. Sad to say however you can't hold everyone's hand.