Insulation certificate?

[Richard W. Washington]

why the need for one? just curious.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by rwashington

why the need for one? just curious.

If you mean the certificate that is needed, like around here, to get the home Certificate of Occupancy, it is part of the energy code. The AHJ wants to know what was put in the house without crawling around to verify amounts and materials. Whoever fills it out is doing the verification.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by rwashington

why the need for one? just curious.

Larry is correct.

In Texas, It'll look something like this.

[homebild]

Originally Posted by rwashington

why the need for one? just curious.

It is required by Law/Building Code in most states. For locations using either chapter 11 of the IRC or the IECC a certificate is required:

2006 International Residential Code (N1101.8 )
2006 International Energy Conservation Code (401.3)

Certificate."A permanent certificate shall be posted on or in the electrical distribution panel. The certificate shall be completed by the builder or registered design professional. The certificate shall list the predominant R-values of insulation installed in or on ceiling/roof, walls, foundation (slab, basement wall, crawlspace wall and/or floor) and ducts outside conditioned spaces; U-factors for fenestration; and the solar heat gain coefficient (SHGC) of fenestration. Where there is more than one value for each component. the certificate shall list the value covereing the largest area. The certificate shall list the type and efficiency of heating, cooling and service water heating equipment."

Status of Texas Energy Codes:

http://www.energycodes.gov/implement...hp?state_AB=TX

[homebild]

Originally Posted by lkage

If you mean the certificate that is needed, like around here, to get the home Certificate of Occupancy, it is part of the energy code. The AHJ wants to know what was put in the house without crawling around to verify amounts and materials. Whoever fills it out is doing the verification.

AHJ's normally do not do inspections unless they are themselves certified Energy Code Inspectors.

Whoever fills out the certificate does NOT verify compliance. The Energy Code Inspector verifies compliance.

The designer or builder only installs the certificate once the structure has passed the Energy Code inspection and only after the Energy Code Inspector has verified that the structure has met or exceeded Energy Code minimum standards and what had been submitted as part of the design with the permit applications.

The certificate is a matter of convenience for potential owners so that they do not have to "crawl around verify amounts and materials" and verifies compliance with all prevailing Energy Codes

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by homebild

AHJ's normally do not do inspections unless they are themselves certified Energy Code Inspectors.

Whoever fills out the certificate does NOT verify compliance. The Energy Code Inspector verifies compliance.

The designer or builder only installs the certificate once the structure has passed the Energy Code inspection and only after the Energy Code Inspector has verified that the structure has met or exceeded Energy Code minimum standards and what had been submitted as part of the design with the permit applications.

The certificate is a matter of convenience for potential owners so that they do not have to "crawl around verify amounts and materials" and verifies compliance with all prevailing Energy Codes

Sounds like your Energy Code Inspector is the Authority.

[homebild]

The AHJ is the Admininistrative authority of a Code Enforcement Department, not necessarily the Inspection authority for that Department.

The AHJ (Authority Having Jurisidication) is not necessarily the inspector for Energy Compliance anymore than he or she is the inspector for Electrical, Construction, Mechanical, or Plumbing compliance....unless, of course, the person who is the AHJ also bears inspection credentials to perform inspections in these categories.

The AHJ issues building permits, stop work orders and Certificates of Occupancy based upon the results of inspections which may or may not be made by the AHJ himself.

In large code departments, it is rare for the AHJ to do any inspections, energy or otherwise.

The AHJ has the ultimate authority to accept (and even reject) the results of certified code inspections which are typically done by others.

Passing an Energy Code Inspection is required for an AHJ to issue a Certificate of Occupancy and to authorize the installation of an energy compliance certificate.

[Larry D. Kage]

I'm sure larger code departments are as you say and I believe my original post was understood and helpful to most readers...your mileage may vary.

[homebild]

Originally Posted by lkage

I'm sure larger code departments are as you say and I believe my original post was understood and helpful to most readers...your mileage may vary.

Your original post, in ALL cases, was incorrect and misleading, and required correction.

The Authority Having Jurisidiction and Energy Code Inspector are completely different entities having different functions.

Energy compliance certificates are installed only after the Energy Code Inspector has crawled around and phyiscally inspected the premises, and only after the Authority Having Jurisdication authorizes the placement of such certificates.

Energy Compliance Certificates are installed for the convenience of the current and future owners.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by homebild

Your original post, in ALL cases, was incorrect and misleading, and required correction.

The Authority Having Jurisidiction and Energy Code Inspector are completely different entities having different functions.

Energy compliance certificates are installed only after the Energy Code Inspector has crawled around and phyiscally inspected the premises, and only after the Authority Having Jurisdication authorizes the placement of such a certificate, and are installed for the convenience of the current and future owners.

Really? It may have required correction from your perpective but others understood the post.

Originally Posted by homebild

In large code departments, it is rare for the AHJ to do any inspections, energy or otherwise.

...but not unheard of...and is more so in smaller departments.

Nonetheless, I think people understand now.

[homebild]

"Really? It may have required correction from your perpective but others understood the post."

Yes, REALLY.

As an Authority Having Jurisidcation and an Energy Code Inspector, I can speak with authority that your original post was misleading and wrong and did more harm that help the discussion....and hence the need for correction.

Whether a Code Department is large or small has no bearing on the fact that the Authority Having Jurisdication and the Energy Code Inspector are completely different entities serving different functions.

There is also no correlation between the size of a Code Department and whether or not the functions of Authority Having Jurisdication and Energy Code Inspector are performed by the same or separate individuals. In many small code departments, the AHJ and Code Inspector are still not synonymous.

The fact remains, your information regarding the purpose, means and intent by which certificates of energy compliance are required to be installed, was not true under any circumstance, and your continued attempt to justify your errors only continues to serve to confuse this issue and thread.

If you wish to further confuse others and demonstrate your ignorance on the subject, please continue to post...

[cgoyette]

Quote:
"Really? It may have required correction from your perpective but others understood the post."

Yes, REALLY.

As an Authority Having Jurisidcation and an Energy Code Inspector, I can speak with authority that your original post was misleading and wrong and did more harm that help the discussion....and hence the need for correction.

Whether a Code Department is large or small has no bearing on the fact that the Authority Having Jurisdication and the Energy Code Inspector are completely different entities serving different functions.

There is also no correlation between the size of a Code Department and whether or not the functions of Authority Having Jurisdication and Energy Code Inspector are performed by the same or separate individuals. In many small code departments, the AHJ and Code Inspector are still not synonymous.

The fact remains, your information regarding the purpose, means and intent by which certificates of energy compliance are required to be installed, was not true under any circumstance, and your continued attempt to justify your errors only continues to serve to confuse this issue and thread."



Homebld
Normally I stay out of the fracas, but why so condescending to a guy who just tried to help? I got his point I also got your point but when did it become necessary to try and belittle the man?

I did not red square you but thought about it, not for accuracy but for decency but I let it go since you may not have meant to be so mean spirited.

Curt

[Larry D. Kage]

Sometimes, Homebild (whoever you are), I enjoy your additions to our board but when you are so anal about your world, I do not and, as you can see, others do not.

It seems being helpful and decent serves most.

Happy New Year...

[homebild]

Originally Posted by cgoyette

Quote:
"Really? It may have required correction from your perpective but others understood the post."

Yes, REALLY.

As an Authority Having Jurisidcation and an Energy Code Inspector, I can speak with authority that your original post was misleading and wrong and did more harm that help the discussion....and hence the need for correction.

Whether a Code Department is large or small has no bearing on the fact that the Authority Having Jurisdication and the Energy Code Inspector are completely different entities serving different functions.

There is also no correlation between the size of a Code Department and whether or not the functions of Authority Having Jurisdication and Energy Code Inspector are performed by the same or separate individuals. In many small code departments, the AHJ and Code Inspector are still not synonymous.

The fact remains, your information regarding the purpose, means and intent by which certificates of energy compliance are required to be installed, was not true under any circumstance, and your continued attempt to justify your errors only continues to serve to confuse this issue and thread."



Homebld
Normally I stay out of the fracas, but why so condescending to a guy who just tried to help? I got his point I also got your point but when did it become necessary to try and belittle the man?

I did not red square you but thought about it, not for accuracy but for decency but I let it go since you may not have meant to be so mean spirited.

Curt

----------------------------------------------------
The main problem here is that there are occaisions when one ventures out of his area of expertise and offers information or advice he is not only not qualified to give, but offers information that is completely wrong.

In forums such as these, wrong infomation purveyed by those who do not know and with no expertise will be accepted as factual....and perputated as truth... when it is not....and in fact is nothing but myth.

This is counterproductive and only serves to undermine the intent of 'educating' others.

The fact remains, that what Larry Kage stated is wholly untrue, and continues to be misleading.

It is not possible for those who read here to 'get' or 'understand' what Larry Kage was attempting to convey when he, himself, does not understand it.

And when one continues, like Larry Kage, to defend his erroneous position despite being corrected and despite having no knowledge or expertise upon which to defend his claims.....it becomes all the more insulting to those of us who ARE experts in our respective fields.

Wrong is wrong.

And Larry Kage in this matter remains wrong.

And any 'belittlling' has Larry Kage as its source, not I.

When one cannot graciously admit error and must instead continue to stubbornly argue and defend one's ignorance rather than take correction and actually learn something from someone who knows better, then WHO is at fault?

The readers of this forum deserve better, and frankly, we are owed an apology...

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by homebild

----------------------------------------------------
The main problem here is that there are occaisions when one ventures out of his area of expertise and offers information or advice he is not only not qualified to give, but offers information that is completely wrong.

In forums such as these, wrong infomation purveyed by those who do not know and with no expertise will be accepted as factual....and perputated as truth... when it is not....and in fact is nothing but myth.

This is counterproductive and only serves to undermine the intent of 'educating' others.

The fact remains, that what Larry Kage stated is wholly untrue, and continues to be misleading.

It is not possible for those who read here to 'get' or 'understand' what Larry Kage was attempting to convey when he, himself, does not understand it.

And when one continues, like Larry Kage, to defend his erroneous position despite being corrected and despite having no knowledge or expertise upon which to defend his claims.....it becomes all the more insulting to those of us who ARE experts in our respective fields.

Wrong is wrong.

And Larry Kage in this matter remains wrong.

And any 'belittlling' has Larry Kage as its source, not I.

When one cannot graciously admit error and must instead continue to stubbornly argue and defend one's ignorance rather than take correction and actually learn something from someone who knows better, then WHO is at fault?

The readers of this forum deserve better, and frankly, we are owed an apology...

There appears to be a major distortion between what you know and are able to communicate and being helpful. You may want to re-read your diatribe.

We've all seen your posts before, homebild and if you were here to be helpful it would show.