mold

[Russel Ray]

Question 1 - Not necessarily if one has reputable sources for cleanup, reputable sources that are well recognized, such as the Environmental Protection Agency, the Centers for Disease Control, etc.

Question 2 - Yes, using such information from those reputable sources.

Question 3 - Yes, using such information from those reputable sources.

Question 4 - By using those reputable sources.

Question 5 - By using those reputable sources.

Question 6 - By using those reputable sources.

Question 7 - My E&O company appreciates the proactive stances I take on many subjects, not the least of which is using reputable sources to advise my Clients.

[Steve McIntire]

Are you going to ensure them that the non-viable or dormant mold spores, which are not visible, are not going to make their child sick?

What source will tell you this?

How are you going to argue with the attorney, that did have the mold tested and it’s one of the known molds that emit large amounts of mycotoxins? How about the doctor that was hired by the attorney to tell the jury, how these Mycotoxins could have affected the client’s sick child?

You have already lost money your talking to an attorney!

How about the client that tells the remediation company “my inspector said there was no need test the mold just clean it up”. Now six months later they’re suing you. Because, they were told there was no need to do a clearance check, or identify it as one of the indicator molds. Now in their own little minds it’s the only possible reason why they have been so sick.

Again what source says mold will not make you sick?

I do not know of any insurance companies that will fight a mold case for you, unless you pay that very high extra premium.

[Russel Ray]

Lots of sources out there on the Internet. Do a Google for Mold.

Or you can also see my previous post which includes the mold document that I wrote for my Interactive Report System (IRS). Information was taken from many sources, including the EPA, CDC, Johns Hopkins Hospital, and many, many more.

I'm going to be expanding on the information in my IRS V2 since PowerPoint lets me do sooooooooo much more, not to mention that I've gone to a CD-based report rather than paper reports. At 700 MB on a CD, there's lots of room for lots of information.

The information on mold is out there if you just take the time to research it. I believe in providing information to my Clients and letting them make their decisions based on being knowledgable about the subject matter.

[Steve McIntire]

I know that there are many sources out there, and I have read several. I have never found answers to the questions I have posted in this discussion. Again, you said you had reputable sources?
What source says that mold will not cause health effects?
Will your insurance cover you in a mold lawsuit?

[Steve McIntire]

Originally Posted by rray

I believe in providing information to my Clients and letting them make their decisions based on being knowledgable about the subject matter.

There is just as much information out there that contradicts what you say as there is that agrees with you. Whoever, has the best so called expert wins. And lets not forget this tab is on the home inspector not your policy.

[Russel Ray]

Mold exists everywhere. You and I are breathing mold spores as we type our posts. Mold spores have been found in the Arctic, Antarctic, Siberia, Death Valley, the Sahara, and every place in between. Mold in and of itself does not cause health problems. Growing/"flowering"/thriving mold can cause health problems, but mostly in the young, elderly, sick, immune-suppressed, etc. So if you fall into those categories, well, duh, you otta be on the lookout to begin with.

You can also drown from drinking too much water. Like, whatever.

Mold needs moisture to grow/"flower"/thrive. If you see mold or smell mold, solve the moisture problem and then clean it up. See my previous PDF post for how to clean it up. It's not hard, really. I used to do it as a 10-year-old. Mold hasn't evolved in 40 years, but our stupidity and refusal to take responsibility for failing to take care of our houses sure has.

Too many people don't understand mold, which is why E&O providers won't cover it except as a rider. But they don't automatically cover WDI, radon, etc., either, so, like, duh. You have to get a rider for those, to. There's lots of stuff that E&O providers don't cover--read the fine print in your policy.

You can subscribe to the mold hyperbole/hysteria or you can be sensible. I choose to be sensible, which my E&O provider really appreciates. Teaching people common sense, which, as my wise ol' grandmother said, is not common, is one of my specialties.

[Steve McIntire]

I never said that I agree with the mold hysteria. I personally think that the majority of mold can be taken care of with the simple measures that you have discussed. If you read my posts, what I am discussing is the legal reality of mold, and what happens when claims are made that can be disputed. If you can get a rider on your policy for mold that even come close to WDI, Radon, and Etc good luck.

I would still like to know what reputable source says that mold does not cause health effects?
Does your insurance cover you for mold lawsuits?
How does your E&O appreciate you? Do you get lower premiums for sticking your neck out?

[Steve McIntire]

Originally Posted by rray

Too many people don't understand mold, which is why E&O providers won't cover it except as a rider.

I disagree; they don’t cover it because of the millions of dollars they have lost in lawsuits.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by smcintire

what I am discussing is the legal reality of mold, and what happens when claims are made that can be disputed.

Anyone can sue anyone else at any time for any reason. That's why I practice being an educational home inspector rather than a documentary home inspector. It's been my experience in 40 years of business that the better informed my Clients are, the more likely it is that they will call me with a problem and the less likely it is that they will sue me. I'm there to help them, and I don't mind doing research to help them. My business career has taken me to chemistry research and agricultural research (both of which, of course, include mold), as well as legal research and insurance research. So I'm quite well versed in all four areas that might be impacted by mold.

Originally Posted by smcintire

If you can get a rider on your policy for mold that even come close to WDI, Radon, and Etc good luck.

That's not difficult at all.

Originally Posted by smcintire

I would still like to know what reputable source says that mold does not cause health effects?

I think I already answered that, but perhaps you were not reading closely: EPA, CDC, Johns Hopkins, probably more. I used their information, as well as others, in the document that I wrote. I remember them specifically because, as a chemist and agriculturalist, I simply like the EPA and CDC, and I always thought Johns Hopkins ought to do away with the "s" on "Johns," so I tend to remember their unusual name.

Originally Posted by smcintire

Does your insurance cover you for mold lawsuits?

No, because I choose not to have the rider. I am sufficiently well versed in areas of mold relating to chemistry and agricultural that I am quite confident in my ability to discuss mold intelligently. I also don't have pool/spa/tennis court E&O insurance, but I inspect those amenities as well.

Originally Posted by smcintire

How does your E&O appreciate you? Do you get lower premiums for sticking your neck out?

You better believe I do. As an example, my first year I paid $4,800. Second year I paid $4,400 while everyone else was going up a minimum of 10%. Third year stayed at $4,400, as did fourth year and fifth year. Try to find other home inspectors whose premiums decreased and/or stayed the same for four years. Good luck.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by smcintire

I disagree; they don’t cover it because of the millions of dollars they have lost in lawsuits.

But that is my point to begin with. Why have they lost millions of dollars in lawsuits? Because home inspectors (and others) don't understand mold and how to talk intelligently about it. Duh.

[Steve McIntire]

This is available for download from EPA.Gov

Mold Resource - Guidance for Health Professionals

This is from EPA.gov
Can mold cause health problems?
Molds are usually not a problem indoors, unless mold spores land on a wet or damp spot and begin growing. Molds have the potential to cause health problems. Molds produce allergens (substances that can cause allergic reactions), irritants, and in some cases, potentially toxic substances (mycotoxins). Inhaling or touching mold or mold spores may cause allergic reactions in sensitive individuals. Allergic responses include hay fever-type symptoms, such as sneezing, runny nose, red eyes, and skin rash (dermatitis). Allergic reactions to mold are common. They can be immediate or delayed. Molds can also cause asthma attacks in people with asthma who are allergic to mold. In addition, mold exposure can irritate the eyes, skin, nose, throat, and lungs of both mold-allergic and non-allergic people. Symptoms other than the allergic and irritant types are not commonly reported as a result of inhaling mold. Research on mold and health effects is ongoing. This brochure provides a brief overview; it does not describe all potential health effects related to mold exposure. For more detailed information consult a health professional. You may also wish to consult your state or local health department

[Steve McIntire]

This is from the CDC questions and answers. It does say that common sense should be used, but is far from saying mold does not cause any health effects.

I can hear it now, I get sick every time I go in my house, but my home inspector said it would be okay. He has a background in agriculture and chemistry

I heard about "toxic molds" that grow in homes and other buildings. Should I be concerned about a serious health risk to my family and me?
The term "toxic mold" is not accurate. While certain molds are toxigenic, meaning they can produce toxins (specifically mycotoxins), the molds themselves are not toxic, or poisonous. Hazards presented by molds that may produce mycotoxins should be considered the same as other common molds which can grow in your house. There is always a little mold everywhere - in the air and on many surfaces. There are very few reports that toxigenic molds found inside homes can cause unique or rare health conditions such as pulmonary hemorrhage or memory loss. These case reports are rare, and a causal link between the presence of the toxigenic mold and these conditions has not been proven. A common-sense approach should be used for any mold contamination existing inside buildings and homes. The common health concerns from molds include hay fever-like allergic symptoms. Certain individuals with chronic respiratory disease (chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder, asthma) may experience difficulty breathing. Individuals with immune suppression may be at increased risk for infection from molds. If you or your family members have these conditions, a qualified medical clinician should be consulted for diagnosis and treatment. For the most part, one should take routine measures to prevent mold growth in the home.

[Russel Ray]

I rest my case.

You could have just read the PDF file I posted.

[Steve McIntire]

The way I read these documents there can be health effects from mold and the mycotoxins it releases. I doubt that we will come to any agreeable conclusion, which is my primary point. That is okay; it’s what keeps the attorneys busy.

I did enjoy the discussion, good luck

[Russel Ray]

I think that's what I said in my posts.

I think that's what I say in the document I wrote.

So I'm resting again.